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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”

207 replies

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:10

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

I’m a teacher and I have to apologise to a student for inadvertently calling a student by birth name and not chosen name. (Was early in school year and was calling the register in auto pilot). Had email from pastoral about how upset I had made them feel. I fell on tenterhooks round this student - especially at parent’s evening and reports as their parents are unaware so I have to use birth names. This is the worst that’s happened to me - I really feel for this teacher.

Female teacher forced to apologise for saying 'Good afternoon, girls'

Bosses at the £20,000-a-year school told the teacher to deliver the mea culpa after her class complained that she said 'good afternoon, girls' at the start of a lesson.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

OP posts:
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14
Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 08:49

rogdmum · 16/04/2023 08:47

I am as concerned about social transition in schools as I am about the goings on at the Tavi. Social transition is a powerful psycho social onterv

Quite - it is schools that are creating the fodder for Tavi

rogdmum · 16/04/2023 08:47

Makewayforsummer · 16/04/2023 08:16

I have greater concerns about the work of the Travistock and males who have committed sexual crime’s claiming to be women. But in your situation OP and the one in the daily mail I think an apology is the right thing to do. I feel sympathy for parents evening stress.

I am as concerned about social transition in schools as I am about the goings on at the Tavi. Social transition is a powerful psycho social onterv

mummyoffourminimes · 16/04/2023 08:46

Surely when the parents do find out there'll be a massive complaint coming to the school?

You shouldn't have to apologise. Surely that's creating intolerant children where they can't recognise a simple slip up and move on.

dreading dd starting high school

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:46

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:42

Can you contact someone senior in the union to support, access some legal advice.

Have they requested your apology in writing?

I agree with @Shelefttheweb

I could but I have contacted my local secretary before on other matters (regarding directed hours and pay etc). Wasn’t much help as DfoE guidance (on everything) is so woolly it can be open to interpretation.

I had an e-mail requesting I meet with the student and make a verbal apology. Almost like a restorative behaviour meeting for me!

OP posts:
Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 08:46

On the union front, you may need to change to one that isn’t captured. But you should do so. ‘I just did what I was told’ is not good enough.

ValancyRedfern · 16/04/2023 08:45

The main Unions are fully captured so they won't support the OP in this unfortunately. I am currently fighting my school's trans policy which also advocates keeping secrets from parents. I have joined the Free Speech Union as well in case I get into hot water. I am not giving up this fight for the troubled teen girls in my care.

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:42

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:36

I am but seeing as there are two union reps in my school that have never raised concerns about our procedures, I don’t think I would be supported.

I don’t think my school is extreme though - it’s happening in friend’s schools too. The newspaper article highlighted the extreme but calling students by chosen names isn’t unusual.

Can you contact someone senior in the union to support, access some legal advice.

Have they requested your apology in writing?

I agree with @Shelefttheweb

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 08:42

Roste · 16/04/2023 08:35

I think this is shocking and an apology is not needed. If children/adults want to change their identity they can ask others to lie on their behalf to support them but forcing this should not be acceptable. Demanding apologies, people feeling they have been forced out of jobs reminds me of struggle sessions during the cultural revolution.

It’s insanity. Invasive and concerning.

Re hiding information from parents someone has linked an article on another thread, it looks set to change

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:41

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 08:38

OP what medical or psychological qualifications do you and your senior leadership team have that make you qualified to impose a powerful psychological intervention on children in your care, and to do so without the knowledge of parents?

Why are you telling children that you will keep secrets; a huge safeguarding fail?

Why are you breaching human rights as a state actor interfering in family life?

Why are you ignoring parental rights to provide guidance to their child?

None.

I am a lowly mainscale teacher (albeit upper pay). I have no power to challenge SLT.

OP posts:
EndIessTea · 16/04/2023 08:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:40

Mamansparkles · 16/04/2023 08:35

Good luck finding a 'less extreme' school on this issue. The pastoral leaderships all seem to be Stonewall trained.
Schools can withhold information from parents in cases of 'genuine safeguarding risk'. Often school leaderships justify this in that the parents might not support their gender identity and that would be 'literal violence' dont you know so that's a safeguarding risk.
At my school we have some kids whose parents know but prefer not to go along with it, so we use preferred name and pronoun at school with their knowledge but their actual name on reports. Others parents don't know at all. And one the parents managed to convince school that we werent allowed to use trans name and pronouns. But just the one.
Out of my average class of 30 I have to remember:

  • who has SEND and what it is
  • serious medical conditions (diabetes, epilepsy)
  • family circumstances (young carers, bereavement)
  • actual names
  • pronouns and preferred names
  • exactly what the deal is for each trans student
I teach 12 different classes across the week. And if I get the last one wrong, I get disciplined.

From a selfish point of view, it’s a headache for us secondary teachers! I have two kids of my own. My headspace is full before I even get to work, then we have school admin, classes to teach, needs to be met. I often mix up my own kid’s names! Luckily they don’t want to cancel me as their mum.

OP posts:
Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 08:38

OP what medical or psychological qualifications do you and your senior leadership team have that make you qualified to impose a powerful psychological intervention on children in your care, and to do so without the knowledge of parents?

Why are you telling children that you will keep secrets; a huge safeguarding fail?

Why are you breaching human rights as a state actor interfering in family life?

Why are you ignoring parental rights to provide guidance to their child?

Mamansparkles · 16/04/2023 08:38

The register being a legal document is the problem. They have to put actual names on it, and then expect us to remember which 20 odd pupils this week have different preferred names and what their pronouns are and we get hauled over the coals if we read out the name on the register.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:36

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:30

Are you a member of a union? Im
not sure they could discipline you for forgetting to say a word, whilst reading through the register with the name on it that you read out.

I’d be tempted to call their bluff and refuse to apologise. However I know no everyone is able to do that for many reasons, so I understand if you feel you can’t refuse.

I always thought the register was a ‘legal document” that had to be accurate? How does that work with calling the incorrect name?

I am but seeing as there are two union reps in my school that have never raised concerns about our procedures, I don’t think I would be supported.

I don’t think my school is extreme though - it’s happening in friend’s schools too. The newspaper article highlighted the extreme but calling students by chosen names isn’t unusual.

OP posts:
Mamansparkles · 16/04/2023 08:35

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:26

What would happen if you just refused?

I think I’d be looking for a different job at a less extreme school.

Good luck finding a 'less extreme' school on this issue. The pastoral leaderships all seem to be Stonewall trained.
Schools can withhold information from parents in cases of 'genuine safeguarding risk'. Often school leaderships justify this in that the parents might not support their gender identity and that would be 'literal violence' dont you know so that's a safeguarding risk.
At my school we have some kids whose parents know but prefer not to go along with it, so we use preferred name and pronoun at school with their knowledge but their actual name on reports. Others parents don't know at all. And one the parents managed to convince school that we werent allowed to use trans name and pronouns. But just the one.
Out of my average class of 30 I have to remember:

  • who has SEND and what it is
  • serious medical conditions (diabetes, epilepsy)
  • family circumstances (young carers, bereavement)
  • actual names
  • pronouns and preferred names
  • exactly what the deal is for each trans student
I teach 12 different classes across the week. And if I get the last one wrong, I get disciplined.
Roste · 16/04/2023 08:35

I think this is shocking and an apology is not needed. If children/adults want to change their identity they can ask others to lie on their behalf to support them but forcing this should not be acceptable. Demanding apologies, people feeling they have been forced out of jobs reminds me of struggle sessions during the cultural revolution.

GospelAccordingToMum · 16/04/2023 08:33

It’s difficult for teachers to resist this madness if SLT and the DSL are captured by the current, dangerous thinking infiltrating schools.

A good DSL (and Headteacher) would not agree to socially transition a child without parents’ knowledge. There is no good reason to keep it a secret, unless school staff have a child protection concern (ie. The child would be at risk of harm if parents were informed). In which case a report should be made to children’s social care, not a whole secret life set up by the school.

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:30

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:27

Disciplinary for not abiding to safeguarding. Current safeguarding references that parents should “ideally” be involved but that doesn’t mean “must”.

Are you a member of a union? Im
not sure they could discipline you for forgetting to say a word, whilst reading through the register with the name on it that you read out.

I’d be tempted to call their bluff and refuse to apologise. However I know no everyone is able to do that for many reasons, so I understand if you feel you can’t refuse.

I always thought the register was a ‘legal document” that had to be accurate? How does that work with calling the incorrect name?

EndIessTea · 16/04/2023 08:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

Mamansparkles · 16/04/2023 08:27

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

Because senior leaders make these decisions and tell class teachers and tutors to do it, and just like the woman in the news article, we get disciplined if we don't.

EndIessTea · 16/04/2023 08:27

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:27

Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:26

What would happen if you just refused?

I think I’d be looking for a different job at a less extreme school.

Disciplinary for not abiding to safeguarding. Current safeguarding references that parents should “ideally” be involved but that doesn’t mean “must”.

OP posts:
MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:26

*name isn’t

OP posts:
Weallgottachangesometime · 16/04/2023 08:26

What would happen if you just refused?

I think I’d be looking for a different job at a less extreme school.

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