A Californian mother talks about dealing with a daughter caught up in the ideology

"If being trans is fine and if one believes trans people when they speak about themselves then someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled. I know many here would not agree any part of that sentence".

The interview is with the mother of a child. It is a common feature on here that discussions about children are often diverted to discuss adults, often using emotive arguments.
Children should not be making reality denying, life decisions about transitioning and sacrificing their future fertility, physical and mental health before they are mature enough to do so. That is what this parent is discussing. What she says resonates with many of us, as women, parents and responsible human beings.

I have looked at plenty of examples of gender affirming care. In the vast majority of cases, the outcome had already been implicitly decided by the patient and the therapist. Rendering the exploration (if indeed there was any) pointless.

I too have read a great deal on it, know children and adults who have received it, and have experienced it first hand. This is not what I have seen in my experience or what I have read in the medical literature. We will have to agree to disagree.

And here is a moment of impasse:

If that describes you, I am genuinely happy for you and I should imagine there will be many on this board who feel the same.

If being trans is fine and if one believes trans people when they speak about themselves then someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled. I know many here would not agree any part of that sentence.

The source is the mother telling the story. The media is the platform she's broadcasting on.
You researched this mom? Why?
Or are you saying you've researched her platform and it is rubbish so automatically there's doubt on her story?

Is this like those character destruction trials in which women were not believed if one could prove she'd ever done at least one unpalatable thing?

I finished Time to Think last night BonfireLady. It was distressing to read the extent that those in charge at GIDs tried to subvert safeguarding. Thank heavens for Sonia Appleby and her quiet determination to ensure safeguarding children couldn't be swept under the carpet.
Knowing that Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids were key in pressuring for immediate affirmation for such vulnerable and unwell children was enraging.

Good for this mother in the video for protecting her child. Far too many adults are ducking these tough decisions and leaving children in the hands of these toxic groups.

I listened to the whole video and found it chilling that this intelligent Democrat mum has had to fight the weight of the state machinery . I think the UK would have followed where California leads but I think the tide has turned here. (I hope so) She spoke eloquently about the need for parents to monitor the way in which schools accept and pass on this ideology without stopping to challenge it in any way at all. It was a fascinating listen and the big piece of advice I took from it was if you are concerned, take away your child’s phone. Do it. That rings true to me.

@DocStrangelove I have looked at plenty of examples of gender affirming care. In the vast majority of cases, the outcome had already been implicitly decided by the patient and the therapist. Rendering the exploration (if indeed there was any) pointless.

Hannah Barnes' book Time to Think is a very well balanced exploration of this. She also gives space for people who have successfully transitioned, and who found benefit from doing so, to speak. If that describes you, I am genuinely happy for you and I should imagine there will be many on this board who feel the same.

However, from an overwhelmingly growing body of evidence (including testimony from many destransitioners), transitioning children is increasingly being seen as the wrong pathway.

Every adult who has successfully transitioned was once a child, of course. However, this doesn't mean that every child who believes they should do so should be affirmed. Gender affirming care assumes that they should be - by this definition it becomes "conversion therapy" (I'm not saying it is, just throwing in the logical devil's advocate conclusion).

Yes. I am a trans man.

Gender affirming care is affirming to the patient as they explore possibilities. It does not presuppose any particular end for that particular patient. As I said I have known people who have had come to very different conclusions through gender affirming care, many still exploring.

Gender-affirming therapy does not have a pre-determined end

What do you think ‘gender affirming’ is then?

I could have avoided a lot of pain and wasted a lot less time had I been given that opportunity when I was younger.

Are you male?

Dr Strangelove - an ex Nazi character. A well chosen user name for those intent on silencing legitimate views.

Can you explain to me how presenting an opposing view is silencing legitimate views? It seems you are the one who believes some people should not post.

Gender-affirming therapy does not have a pre-determined end. Gender-affirming therapists support their clients no matter the path they choose. I have known parents whose children went to therapy and did not transition and others who did and some whose children started transition and changed their mind. The purpose of therapy was to avoid harm--giving the patient a judgment free space in which to explore these issues. I could have avoided a lot of pain and wasted a lot less time had I been given that opportunity when I was younger.

I did not say that anyone aligns with anti-abortionists other than the Heritage Foundation. What I said was that The Daily Signal is produced by an anti-abortion/anti-feminist organization that has utilized their platform to present misinformation.

Looking back as a child I was definitely a tom boy and if someone had told me I could be a boy I would have been delighted and done it in an instant. By the time I was a teenager I had found myself and was definitely a girl. It would have ruined my life if I had been suggested/or allowed to attempt to change my gender as a child.

I am surprised these days that any person can talk about children and adolescents being ‘prevented’ from transitioning when we know so much about desistance, the lessons from detransitioners and from clinicians who are sounding the alarms about affirming only treatments. And how even ‘social transition’ is not a neutral action and should be very very carefully navigated.

But hey… let’s try to point out a mother who wanted to ensure that a child received unbiased care is a problem ‘activist’.

Sorry I'm so angry I've typed an obvious typo

I"M NOT ANTI ABORTION!

And yes I am angry.

Really fucking angry. Not wanting children harmed is not aligning with anti abortionists. FFS.

Do you know what? It really pisses me off that the left has lost it's mind so much with child safeguarding that posters like 'DrStrangelove' can come on here and say 'but you align with anti abortionists'.

These are fucking children who are abusing their bodies and sometimes rendering themselves infertile because something has convinced them they have somehow been born wrong.

Who ever in the 'left' thinks that they are on the right side of history and that maiming children is a good idea can fucking do one.

I'm anti abortion as are most who disagree with this shit are. My daughter is autistic. She needs protecting from the left who would convince her because she is not like other (tik tok) girls, she must be a fucking boy.

Dr Strangelove - an ex Nazi character. A well chosen user name for those intent on silencing legitimate views.

Yes. When I see ‘conversion’ therapy posted in this context, my immediate thought is exactly that. Therapists that are affirming only.

It is always interesting to see what others consider ‘conversion’ therapy. Particularly when it relates to children and adolescents.

@DocStrangelove
It is conversion therapy if the therapist has a pre-determined outcome they are seeking, whether it is that sexuality must always be heterosexual or that transgender individuals do not/should not exist. Exploratory therapy allows the patient to guide the process.

I see your point to a degree. The mum (and presumably the therapist she selected the second time) had a pre-deterimed outcome in mind that they would help the daughter understand and accept her body. Similar to how someone would approach other body dysmorphia/dysphoria issues like anorexia.

I also agree with you that this shouldn't be an echo chamber. It's about listening to each other and challenging other opinions respectfully. Then listening some more and so on.

I guess the key things for me would be that no child should be making decisions about modifying their body in an irreversible way.

As I understand it, where gender dysphoria seems to branch away from other body dysmorphia is that on rare occasions, people (adults whose brains have developed past adolescence) may find that talking therapy does not address the gender dysphoria. After much consideration of the risks, the answer could then be surgical intervention. As I understand it, this is closer to the origins of gender identity care. What's happened in the last 10/15 years seems to be more of a social contagion which is impacting confused adolescent girls by providing what is effectively the wrong answer.

It is conversion therapy if the therapist has a pre-determined outcome they are seeking,

You mean like gender affirming therapists?

I mean I find there are not enough hours in the day to read and listen to all the stuff that bring worthwhile knowledge to my life, so I would never spend so much time listening to something I found abhorent.

I research American conservatism and "family values" politics. It is literally my job.

You've got me. I am indeed played by Peter Sellers.

Who have I silenced? I have shared my skepticism based on information I have about the source from spending a great deal of time reading and listening to their materials. If people are genuinely concerned about not being in an echo chamber then I am uncertain how voicing this opinion is problematic.

It is conversion therapy if the therapist has a pre-determined outcome they are seeking, whether it is that sexuality must always be heterosexual or that transgender individuals do not/should not exist. Exploratory therapy allows the patient to guide the process.

You are desperate to silence people who you disagree with aren’t you? Why is that?