A Californian mother talks about dealing with a daughter caught up in the ideology

DocStrangelove I noticed you forgot to answer my question?

Barriers to care exist in the UK as well including a shortage of providers, long wait times, and access to information. The GIDS is currently seeing patients referred to them in 2018. There's loads of reporting on the average wait for care--and that's just initial intake.

The costs of surgical intervention include things like time off from work and the need for caregiving.

Non binary is entirely made up, so why does it need to be 'affirmed'?
What about all the other hundreds of genders? Why is non binary more 'valid' than catgender or astrogender?

Yes their are a tiny % of what most understand as transexuals. Individuals with extreme dysphoria who need to take drugs or surgery to mimic the opposite sex. But that is a tiny % of the current 'trans' umbrella.

I was wondering how you know so many?
How many of each kind did you know altogether? Are you in a particular job which means you are particularly likely to come across body dysphoric children?

I am trans and so I am part of a community. We need support from one another too. Especially right now.

I apologize for repeatedly adding strikethroughs to my text. I need to break my habit of using em dashes.

Transition has different meanings for different people. The vast majority of children who receive gender affirming care that is social transitionno medical or surgical intervention or if they receive it is much later. For many people that is transition and passing is not always the end goal. And many children who receive gender affirming care are non-binary and not seeking a specific medical or surgical treatment. Medical interventions are rare and surgeries incredibly rareI defer to the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychological Association on these points as I am not a medical doctor. But, generally, the experience of being supported in one's self through therapy and family and social recognition is a big deal.

As for the rates among adults of medical or surgical interventions the data are poor but it is also the case that there are not enough providers who are proficient in providing care and there are loads of economic barriers to accessing that care which is generally expensive, especially for a population that is more likely to live in poverty. Data from 2022 showed that around 40% of adults who wanted hormonal treatment had access to it. Surgery is far more inaccessible.

@DrStrangelove

I have known parents whose children went to therapy and did not transition and others who did and some whose children started transition and changed their mind

I was wondering how you know so many?
How many of each kind did you know altogether? Are you in a particular job which means you are particularly likely to come across body dysphoric children?

Thank you for posting that. Her example is wonderful, and it is helpful to hear of some of those ways she helped her daughter, for example listening to podcasts about cults or detransitioner Helena with her on long journeys, and standing up for her own belief that the ideas are false.

Her idea that everyone who is against this should band together whatever their ‘group’ in order to create a force, through numbers, to be reckoned with is important too.

Her summary of what to look out for the anime, cosplay, porn, telephones was memorable. You realise this is all becoming predictable, don’t give the benefit of the doubt, don’t wait to watch the ideology it take hold.

Should we allow an 11 year old to ‘consent’ to sex or is blanket prohibition a good thing?

The priority should be safeguarding children from harm - not making ideological statements that while applicable to most adults may well not apply to many children.

Yes. Informed consent is a concept that acknowledges the need for the decision-making process to be consultative and a need for nuance in navigating this process. Would you say that parents? the state? should be able to force a teenager who is pregnant to have an abortion against their will? or force them to carry a pregnancy to term against their will? These are thorny issues that are often dealt with poorly with blanket prohibitions, whether relative to pregnancy or gender affirming care.

So your contention is that either I am a pathological liar or...experiencing a multi-decade psychotic break?

Fortunately we have a system of safeguarding children. Some children will be pregnant through rape, some will be very young, some may have learning difficulties / special needs. Many of these children will be unable to make that decision. For other children it's a decision they are too young to make.
The priority should be safeguarding children from harm - not making ideological statements that while applicable to most adults may well not apply to many children.

Can you provide us with a source that you consider impartial? That has never falsely presented any data? Whose reason for existing is not to support a particular position?

No source is entirely impartialwe all come with some baggage in evaluating the world and everyone errsbut surely you would not suggest that all sources are equally valid.

You think your children should be able to consent to sex?

If a minor becomes pregnant they should be able to determine the outcome.

Yes. I am a trans man

So not male then.

'Gender affirming care'?
What is gender other than sex role stereotypes to mimic?
There is no lady brain or man brain to affirm and dysphoria is a mental illness that a better 'cure' for is getting to the bottom of whatever trauma caused the dysphoria in the first place.
Why is this mental illness treated differently to others?
Why are they treating the symptoms and not the cause?

Encouraging children who for whatever reason are experiencing mental distress and dysphoria, to continue to dissociate from their sexed body is not 'care' or healthy. It's abuse.

Can you provide us with a source that you consider impartial? That has never falsely presented any data? Whose reason for existing is not to support a particular position?

What do you mean by "not believe that trans identities are valid" Strangelove? I'm speaking about children denying the reality of their sexed bodies and thinking that changing them will resolve their pubertal angst.

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Why, if being prevented from medical and surgical transition was such a bad thing for children, do the majority of adult male transition SRS have neither medical or surgical treatment? Good question.

Also, puberty blockers (which are seen as the first step) can stunt girls growth (making it less likely they'll pass as a transman) and prevent sufficient penis tissue from growing in boys to be able to form a neovagina, as outlined in terrible detail by both Susie Green on video and in I am Jazz. Even if you presuppose the end goal is transition I don't think, if there was free debate, there would be an accepted view that stopping puberty is necessarily a good idea.

Pregnancy/abortion are also life changing decisions that I believe minors should be allowed to make relative to their own bodies with informed consent even when that decision is at odds with the views of their parents.

You think your children should be able to consent to sex? 😮

*transitioners

someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled.

We wouldn’t agree because they are not equal when medical and surgical treatment is involved. A child (as we are talking about children here, not adults with mature brains and knowledge of orgasms and opportunity for storing gametes) who transitions and then later has detransitioned has had body parts mutilated, brain development halted, bone density drastically reduced, ability to organism removed, fertility destroyed, voice changed and will be a lifelong medical patient with a possibly shortened life as well as likely ongoing mental health difficulties which may well have predated their transition but were not appropriately treated. A child who is prevented from transitioning and provided with appropriate psychological support remains physically healthy and has mental health treated. The vast majority of these children then go on to be reconciled with their sex. Those who don’t will benefit from a fully matured brain with which to make those decisions, appropriate bone density, knowledge of orgasms and the possibility of retaining them, as well as the opportunity to store gametes.

Why, if being prevented from medical and surgical transition was such a bad thing for children, do the majority of adult male transition SRS have neither medical or surgical treatment?

The problem is that 'left wing' platforms are silencing parents, detransitioners and GC women on this so if you want to hear these perspectives you have to listen to media on the right. KJK has talked about this -she's gone on right wing media because they are the only ones who'll have her on. That in itself is highly disturbing.

The interview is with the mother of a child. It is a common feature on here that discussions about children are often diverted to discuss adults, often using emotive arguments.

The child does not speak here so we cannot know their perspective on this.

Children should not be making reality denying, life decisions about transitioning and sacrificing their future fertility, physical and mental health before they are mature enough to do so. That is what this parent is discussing. What she says resonates with many of us, as women, parents and responsible human beings.

Pregnancy/abortion are also life changing decisions that I believe minors should be allowed to make relative to their own bodies with informed consent even when that decision is at odds with the views of their parents. But ultimately the phrases "reality denying" is the key here--you do not believe trans identities are valid.

Or are you saying you've researched her platform and it is rubbish so automatically there's doubt on her story?

Is this like those character destruction trials in which women were not believed if one could prove she'd ever done at least one unpalatable thing?

If information appeared on a site that was the arm of a political organization and its reason for existing was posting material to support the political positions of that organization, often by presenting misleading, partial, or false information then yes I am skeptical. They also have a very sympathetic interview with Kyle Rittenhouse and interviews with people claiming to have worked in abortion clinics with horror stories. I also do not take RT at face value, for example.