I had my booking appointment this week

If you had GRS to become a female then you wouldn't be pregnant! They cannot implant ovaries and uterus's into male bodies.

Where scientific peer reviewed research is published xx

You’re right I meant more in the context of them communicating your care to other healthcare providers, important to be respectful always ❤️ ahh I love a cute pet name that’s so sweet

Nothing funny about protecting parents 🥰🥰

yes I did say it is a disputed figure, just that regardless of your beliefs people need to be heard and respected, also I said there were people who identify as this as someone told me it was offensive to use the term, but there are def people who have DSD and call themselves intersex, this is taken a little out of context :) not trying to hurt anyone here I just think everyone should be looked after when they’re having a baby, physically and mentally x

As I said I am aware this is something that had been disputed, it was just to say that being transphobic is not reason to disregard important questions on questionnaires like OP pointed out as you cannot make assumptions in health care :) mental health is just as important as physical health in antenatal care ❤️ have a lovely day x

@pink9798 Your claim about red hair and “intersex” is false. Some people have an interest in falsely representing DSD for their own interests.

I’d recommend listening to the BBC’s More or Less: Behind the Stats episode where they interview a doctor who specialises in sexual development disorders: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000222z

In order to get the percentage you’re suggesting you would have to include such minor conditions where basically a female’s ovaries or other part of sexual organs haven’t developed properly. I fail to see how that puts them on a spectrum towards being male.

And this is why we can look forward to newspaper headlines such as:

5% Rise in male pregnancies. (Should maternity pay be increased?)

[Captured] NHS trust saves money as male prostatectomies fall by 10%

There certainly seems to be a certain amount of women who are falsely identifying as 'intersex' due to having PCOS (which is not a DSD condition).

Wasn't Fausto - Stirling's claim of 'intersex is as common as red heads' completely debunked ages ago? It always seems like a blast from the past when a drive through scolder brings it up.

Ridiculous. And congratulations!

The NHS is totally captured as we know. I started a thread a few hours ago about my recent experience on a children’s ward with my daughter and pronoun badges for staff which has been hidden for some reason. This ideology has no place in healthcare settings for women and children, for patients or staff.

“It's about affirming, supporting and empowering your patients while they go through potentially the biggest transition of their life.”

No, it’s not.

What it’s actually about is:

• keeping the mother and baby alive;
• getting mother and baby through pregnancy, childbirth and the neonatal period with the minimum physical damage possible to them.

In midwifery and maternity, pronouns are not anywhere near the top of the list of the most important thing for the NHS to be focusing on. That would be the excess negative outcomes (that means deaths, by the way) for black women.

That “affirming, supporting, and empowering” catchphrase sounds like the publicity material of a self-identifying gender doctor running a commercial enterprise. In that scenario, describing it as being all about those three buzzwords would be accurate, as minimising physical damage to patients doesn’t appear to be much of a priority in that particular sector. As we are seeing from increasing cases of detransitioners.

I found this statement interesting in the context of a ZOMBIE thread bring bumped, accidentally of course. “I go to gender studies journals and the communities with lived experience for my information,”

I would agree @pink9798 that what people say about who they are has meaning and shouldn't be dismissed without listening.

If a pregnant woman says they are a man, then clearly they have been through something significant to say that, and it has a meaning for them that I may not fully understand. Likewise if someone says they are 'intersex' it has a meaning for them.

It's not true though, as in factually true in a way that can be objectively determined. And that does matter. It also has impacts on others - insisting that men can be pregnant affects women because it is a lie that has implications for all women. That is not a small thing.

I go to gender studies journals
What the heck is that?

I am aware this is very complex
Surprisingly enough, no it isn't. People just pretend it is. I also don't think you understand what intersex actually is.

I go to gender studies journals and the communities with lived experience for my information, I am aware this is very complex, which is why everyone needs to be treated with respect ❤️ have a lovely day x

So do you actually know what you mean when you say "intersex" or are you being dishonest when you use them in your claims?

You don't seem too keen on the idea of educating yourself on this. That doesn't exactly demonstrate that you respect people for who they are. At all.

So now you can "identify" as intersex?

Yet still no way to identify as a different age or race? Apparently its all kinds of impossible to be any age or race you choose. But a gender, have at it and now intersex.

I dont think you have any idea of the depth of this. You maybe should read around a bit, try
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?page=32&reply=124734949

And
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?page=23&reply=101057943

Toe curling, even. Tie curling is probably a gendered activity.

Unless things have changed hugely in the past few years, I think you'll find the midwives all call you mum, in a slightly tie curling fashion. Hey ho.

I think there are some assumptions being made about ym comment that aren't true. I just think every single person that has a baby deserves to be respected for who they are.

There is large community of people who identify themselves as intersex, and I'm sure plenty who don't. My point was not that they are 'not one or the other' but that no-one should make assumptions about these things.

Peace and love to you all

What 'wrong pronouns' might she use? I assume she'd use 'you' when talking to me.

Hormone treatments and previous surgery to alter the appearance of genitalia and/or secondary sex characterisicts are medical treatments, which could obviously be relevant to any later medical treatment, but this is nothing to do with 'gender'. Detransitioners exist.

Btw @pink9798 it's hugely offensive to say that intersex is as common as being ginger. For that stat to be true you are saying that thousands of men and women living with DSDs - that only apply to one sex or the other- aren't really men or really women.

Please, do educate yourself on this. Find out which conditions you include when you quote this stat, and think for yourself about why it's wrong to say these people are "intersex". Bear in mind some go hand in hand with fertility issues and ask yourself if you think that makes someone "not really" their sex.

I have no idea what pronouns are right or wrong for me - how do I find out?

This is very ignorant to be fair.

Your concern that a midwife uses the wrong pronouns when dealing with a pregnant woman claiming to be a man, would suggest pink9798 that you have never birthed a baby.
The biggest transition in any woman's life who becomes pregnant is having the baby and all the following years of commitment - pronouns will be a complete irrelevance. 😂

If someone is having a baby then it should say sex: female as a prepopulated field that cannot be adjusted as there's no need. There could be a field with something around which gender do you align with, I don't agree that gender is a thing personally but at least that way its not denying biological reality.