Surrogacy laws to be overhauled under new reforms – benefitting the child, surrogate and intended parents - Law Commission proposals

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611761/

Surely, from a reasonable perspective, this is all about feelings?

Mmm. The feelings of those who want to procure babies seem to mean that "ongoing consent" will be their vehicle to ride roughshod over women's consent. To freely consent is about how you feel. I just don't see how that's possible in the context of getting pregnant, being pregnant, giving birth, and all the postpartum issues that there are. Presumably it isn't possible to give free consent which is why this "catch" is being built in. And that's without even thinking about the baby. Which no one is thinking of unless it's as something to procure.

Can you post that follow up study please @Londisc?

you feel that frisson... right, so it's about your feelings.

I loved my feeling of pregnancy so much I looked into becoming a surrogate in the future whilst I was pregnant.

That changed when I went through a risky birth. It made me think I'd be willing to take on that risk for my own family but not for a stranger.

I'm interested in this argument I hadn't heard of it before.

Also, a mother nurtures her child in the womb and the two share and exchange more than we think, they are literally a part of each other. I know there are plenty of babies that get removed from their birth mother for very sad reasons, but to actually manufacture that? I'm not sure of the ethics for the baby.

@EndIessTea
a family created by two people falling in love, conceiving, feeling that primal profound commitment that comes with her pregnancy, then going on to mother and father a child who they fiercely cling to, protect, support and guide for as long as they live

This may be your ideal vision of the world but it's not reality is it?

The thing is many of the commissioning parents DON'T want the surrogate mother in their lives forever. There are plenty of articles about how they promise this before the baby is born (or even conceived) to persuade the SM to choose THEM but drop her like a hot potato as soon as the baby is born

Yes, as you say there are plenty of articles about it and I think it's widely known. What was a surprise was to discover how difficult it was to find women who DO want lifelong involvement, which as I said was one of the reasons I am not in favour of commercial surrogacy.

IANAL but the concept of "ongoing consent" sounds like how rape used to be legal in marriage. And is definitely sounds like an incel / MRA wet dream. Changed your Facebook status to "in a relationship"? Not rape! You've consented on an ongoing basis.

It's got huge ramifications and has to go straight in the bin.

Yes, I posted one worrying outcome from a study which reached a conclusion that totally overlooked that outcome. I found that really odd. And with no follow up after children were 7 years, it doesn't tell us anything about long term outcomes

The same research team from age 1, 2, 3 and 7 have continued at 10 and at 14. Ages 1, 2, 3 more positive in surrogate families. Then at 7 less positive, consistent with findings with regard to adopted children, then at 10 no difference, again consistent with findings with regard to adopted children.

At 14: Overall, the findings of this longitudinal study of children born through egg donation, donor insemination, and surrogacy did not indicate raised levels of mother-adolescent relationship difficulties or adolescent adjustment problems compared with natural conception families.

However: "Although it is essential to stress that the scores for both mothers and children in egg donation families are indicative of high levels of maternal acceptance and family functioning, inspection of the mean scores shows the donor insemination families to be similar to the natural conception comparison group whereas the egg donation families show less positive scores.

"In contrast, it appears that the absence of a gestational link between mothers and their children does not have an adverse effect on the quality of mother-child relationships at adolescence"

The law changed to "presumed consent" for organ donation. I opted out when the law change and encouraged my family to do the same. They know my views and are welcome to offer up my kidneys if I'm ever in that situation but I won't have the state presume they can take what they want. Especially now that there is a push for womb transplants to men and use of ovaries however the technology currently allows. I would never allow my daughter's reproductive organs to be used for some man with a fetish.

This comes under "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do it". And the more I've thought about it, the more I think Kirkup's attention to this is right. I can't get away from the idea that "ongoing consent" could begin to make its way into the lexicon and onto statute. This is a really important issue to keep focused on and to write to MPs about.

Personally, I think the real issues here are anonymous/absent donors and surrogates who don't want to maintain contact with the child and its family even (and it is not easy to find women who want to commit to lifelong involvement)

The thing is many of the commissioning parents DON'T want the surrogate mother in their lives forever. There are plenty of articles about how they promise this before the baby is born (or even conceived) to persuade the SM to choose THEM but drop her like a hot potato as soon as the baby is born.

This is what lead to one SM succeeding in overturning the Parental Order in a legal first last autumn, as the CPs, FAMILY FRIENDS, did not want her to have ongoing contact with her child (it was her egg - her child in every way).

I'm late for work and will post some links later.

That's the Tories for you.

No one said it was about transactivism @Londisc

Yes, I posted one worrying outcome from a study which reached a conclusion that totally overlooked that outcome. I found that really odd. And with no follow up after children were 7 years, it doesn't tell us anything about long term outcomes. In fact, I can find no studies about the long term outcomes of children who have been gestated for other people to raise. I don't suppose that will happen as there are a lot of people who have a vested interest in suppressing any negative outcomes.

The creeping commercialisation of women's reproductive capabilities is something all women should be concerned about n