Surrogacy laws to be overhauled under new reforms – benefitting the child, surrogate and intended parents - Law Commission proposals

@ResisterRex I love the way you phrase things. I think all your bullet points are sane and reasonable too!

So if we can “gift” children, and surrogacy is altruistic, why are people being paid for it? Surely they’d be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, expecting no recompense? Why is it costing someone $75000 to buy a baby when as a poster said, the baby is a gift? At what age does selling a human become illegal? 5? 7? 50? Why is it ok to sell a baby but not a 3 year old?

Is objecting to the commodification of women's bodies, the sale of infants, and the addition of "ongoing consent" to the statute, things one pins one's "perception of self-worth" to? Let's break them down:

• commodification of women's bodies. Yes, I think humans are priceless and not something like a pint of milk you stick in the shopping. Being a woman, I do link that to my own self-worth and I think that's a sane and reasonable position.

• sale of infants. Again, babies are not a ready meal or a car to be bought and sold, and picked over, bargained for. Another sane and reasonable viewpoint.

• objecting to ongoing consent as a legal concept. I fear we would be back to rape in marriage being legal, as one nasty example of where that would go. I do link that to my own self-worth and again, I think it's sane to view myself as my own person who doesn't give the ongoing nod for an act being down to me whenever. I also think this is reasonable. I am worth more than this.

Babies have rights and a need for
security.

The only thing they know at birth is the heart rate and smell of their mother, not the ego of their purchaser.

poor babies. It’s inhumane

If the 'legitimate alternatives' include disregarding centering the needs of a child? Isn't that problematic rather than legitimate? There's a lot of articulate explanation of the issues here, that are perfectly rational reasons for not agreeing with you.

It’s really weird that you are unable to imagine a baby has rights which need to be considered.

Ok. You are not interested in even trying to engage in rational conversation. You are not interested in actually truly considering any possibility that there might be legitimate alternatives to the worldview which you are desperately clinging to and trying to protect because you've pinned your perception of self-worth onto it. You will get support on this particular board of course, so I can see why you stick with it.

Excellent posts from EndlessTea

It is also worth reading what adult adoptees have to say about their experience. A significant number have raised the difficulty and emotional burden/impact on relationship with their adoptive parents through things like knowing: they were wanted to fill a hole in the parents' life: they were brought into the family to serve an adult's purpose. That their adoptive parents don't want to know or think or talk about the feelings that the adult child grew up with regarding their birth parent and the loss of them. That they are under unspoken pressure to be grateful. That the adoptive parents celebrate the day of their being united as something joyful, when to the child it was a day of loss.

And these adults were not intentionally created, and their loss of their birth parent and identity intentionally caused to serve that adult's emotional need. That's going to potentially add a whole lot of extra challenges. And those kids who were adopted went to very carefully vetted parents, with supervised hand over and settling times, where the parents had been trained and helped to understand that the child is not simply a blank slate on which to project the adult's wishes as if they were a birth child; that they have a history which cannot be a dirty secret dressed up in 'she was just a walking incubator, she wasn't your mother'.

Yes, some kids will be fine and happy. Others won't be. Others may seriously suffer. How many kids are collateral damage to this being seen as ok for rich adults to do for themselves?

Why did you share what your DC thought on this thread?

With regard to surrogacy, what specific rights of the child are you talking about?

The problem is if you object to the principle then you don't want to know that the study is showing no adverse effects for the children. You can't say 'you're not thinking about the child' and then ignore what the study is saying about the child.

The benefit for the child is that they exist after a lot of planning and care and are very much loved and - when the everyone involved maintains ongoing contact - is very well aware of how much they were actively wanted and planned for and welcomed into the world. Not 'sold' but a 'gift', yes, and that is also what children from these families report. I know that people don't think the children should have a say in whether surrogacy should be continued in the UK but EndlessTea obviously doesn't think that given that she has quoted what her DC think.

Again, I have no - and will never have - personal or commercial involvement in surrogacy.

I’m not sure that it is for the benefit of the ‘the State’, just for a few privileged individuals, often operating outside the boundaries of belonging to one Sate, and with no loyalty to anything other than themselves.

Monsters.

How does surrogacy benefit the child?

One minute a baby is not a baby until it’s born and a woman should be able to abort it right up until birth. But if it’s surrogacy the baby is actually a baby and will be deeply traumatised as has apparently now been a baby since conception.

Yes a newborn baby will automatically want the women who birthed it, but it will very quickly bond with whichever human becomes it’s primary caregiver. A newborn baby will also wanr to breastfeed. A newborn baby will also want to cosleep. Apparently we’re not allowed to enforce that.