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Original poster

Starmer insults women’s intelligence to blame Sunak for judicial failures when it was Starmer’s CPS that failed to prosecute rapists

482 replies

IwantToRetire · 11/04/2023 00:25

I am so fed up with politicians and their seedy bully boy tactics.

So Starmer having failed to get personal approval from voters who rate Sunak higher than him, doesn't think maybe I should try harder to be more relevant to voters.

No he decides to roll in the gutter and use personal attacks. https://www.jackfm.co.uk/news/politics/labour-takes-inspiration-from-australia-with-sunak-attack-ads-but-they-need-more-to-pull-off-a-proper-ousting/

I'm not saying the Tories are blameless, but lets face it, it was/is the CPS who continued/s to fail to prosecute rapists even when the police present evidence, because the CPS only want to take on sure fire winning court cases to up their stats.

So not only has Labour tried to make out Sunak (who became as MP the same year as Starmer) personally doesn't want child abusers to go to prison, but now has plagerised women campaign's slogan about how rape has been decriminalised. https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/the-decriminalisation-of-rape/

And yet Labour still doesn't know what a woman is, nor have they re-admitted women expelled from Labour for saying women are biological females. But think our tiny emotional brains will be overwhelmed by their crass statements about women's issues.

Labour seem to think that because this sort of politcal sloganeering used by the vote leave party were sucessful during the Brexit campaign, that this is how they will win the next election.

Which is worse? That our politicians think voters are such dimwits. Or that they might be right. https://labourlist.org/2023/04/labour-attack-ad-rishi-sunak-crime-twitter-controversial-advert/

OP posts:
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Needmoresleep · 12/04/2023 21:39

To be effective an attack ad needs to be credible.

My impression is that Rishi is a family man who is not be motivated to be lenient on child abusers. (Neither does he come across as a “hang ‘em, flog ‘em” type.)

One conspiracy theory doing the rounds is that he is part of some international conspiracy of bankers trying to control the international monetary system.(We have an otherwise lovely friend who seems to subscribe to every conspiracy theory going…it’s often hard to keep a straight face.) I don’t believe that either, but there is a better credibility fit.

It’s going to be quite hard for Labour. Rishi’s weakness is that he lacks warmth and charisma and many voters do not think he understands their situation. Part of this is his wealth. Part will be the posh public school, Oxbridge, Stanford. But also the fact that he is not white and (nominally) Christian. Attempts to ‘other’ him could be seen as racism. From a part that has only ever had white men as leaders.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 12/04/2023 20:50

I think this facile attempt to connect MPs to sentencing is just silly.

Judges etc., set sentencing and as the earlier part of the thread pointed out, the sentencing guidelines committee (or whatever its name is) isn't an MPs committee. So called experts such as Starmer inform these committees or are even part of they and take decisions.

Look at how many people (men) have been let out of prison when they seem so clearly to still be a threat. MPs aren't taking these decisions, so called experts are.

And the low level of rape cases going to court, wasn't about cuts (which I know are real) to court services but were because the CPS only wanted to take on sure fire winner cases.

And yes the NHS has been starved of money, but a lot of what money there is is wasted by top heavy management.

So depressing to have a discussion where the level of debate is like the sort of school boy sloganeering of the SWP.

Although accept that in many areas of government funded services, cuts have absolutely radically changed how those services are provided eg closure of local police stations, no bobbies on the beat, etc..

But if Labour had any guts they would have an honest discussion about how with less public money to spend (even after dumping over blown vanity projects) they would be able to improve the provision of services.

The worry is Labour attack ads are dragging us into the bizarre unreality of US politics, which depends of making people believe the impossible, and then when it doesn't happen because it cant, people turn round and say there must be a conspiracy.

OP posts:
Flowerly · 12/04/2023 19:38

I got that.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/04/2023 19:03

I think Zodfa was being sarcastic.

Flowerly · 12/04/2023 18:56

Think that you are the only one saying this Zodfa. Weird thing to celebrate.

Zodfa · 12/04/2023 18:43

I too agree that letting 4500 convicted paedophiles off without a jail sentence is no bad thing. All hail the Tories!

Whaeanui · 12/04/2023 18:09

while his predecessors Liz Truss and Boris Johnson essentially oozed mud from their pores

😂 that made me properly laugh! True though.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 12/04/2023 18:02

Starmer digs in on attack ads with poll lead lowest since Sunak took office

The thinking behind the adverts is presumably that, while his predecessors Liz Truss and Boris Johnson essentially oozed mud from their pores, Sunak needs some thrown at him.

However, whether the blow against Sunak is worth the cost – a public spat between members of the shadow cabinet and the leadership, full-throated criticism from Labour grandees such as Blunkett, not to mention the hostage to fortune that is potentially revitalising smears on Starmer which allege he allowed Jimmy Savile to go unpunished – very much remains to be seen.

https://labourlist.org/2023/04/starmer-digs-in-on-attack-ads-with-poll-lead-lowest-since-sunak-took-office/

When our activists are yelled at about Jimmy Savile, we have the PM to thank – LabourList

A few weeks ago, when I was out on the doorstep in Birmingham Erdington with a group of MPs, councillors, activists and party staff, a…

https://labourlist.org/2022/03/when-our-activists-are-yelled-at-about-jimmy-savile-we-have-the-pm-to-thank/

OP posts:
dimorphism · 12/04/2023 17:27

Rishi does not strike me as a 'magical thinking' kind of guy. He's super rich and probably out of touch but in terms of how the markets will respond to a policy and the economic consequences? I don't think he's the type to ignore reality.

dimorphism · 12/04/2023 17:26

ohnonowwhat · 12/04/2023 13:36

Exactly this. I've not voted for anyone for years now as they've all repulsed me but if it looks like Labour have a chance I'll have to vote Tory, I think even if they try and row back a bit on the trans thing I wouldn't trust them in the slightest. I would also be very worried about the economy if they're just hoping they won't have to pay for stuff cos "optimism" 🙄 The continued refusal to condemn or even really acknowledge tings like the grooming gangs is certainly another reason I would do all I can to keep them out of government. But maybe that's what they really want, they seem to enjoy life on the opposition benches where they can just snipe at the Tories without having to actually come up with any solutions themselves, maybe it's suddenly occurring to them that actually running the country will be a lot trickier than moaning about how other people are running the country.

Show quote history

Yes, the inability to be honest about something as simple as the sex binary does not inspire confidence in economics either.

If you're willing to employ magical thinking in one area, why on earth would we think they won't employ it everywhere else too and it's that kind of thinking that Truss had, frankly, a lack of clear sight about reality and about the real world behaviour of the markets etc.

SidewaysOtter · 12/04/2023 14:48

I am thinking exactly the same. I am actually afraid that the LP will get in and I used to be a member. WTF?

I know. A few years ago I was all for joining the Labour party. Now I don't trust them as far as I could throw them - at least on the issue of women's rights - and this "attack" campaign has just made my feelings stronger. I cannot begin to understand why Labour thinks this is a good idea because it makes them look spiteful and childish (as well as idiotic with the whole 'Sunak wasn't an MP at the time but Starmer was DPP' thing).

Given how on-the-hop other Labour MPs seem have been caught with the campaign, it strikes me as the sort of thing Rayner would be behind.

Needmoresleep · 12/04/2023 14:34

TooBigforyourbBoots, there seems to be a problem with the logical process.

"Conservatives For Women (I think that's their name, I understand they're similar to Labour Women's Declaration?) found that only 50% of Tory MPs knew what a woman was in a recent poll. And the Tory government have no plans to safeguard Women's rights from TRAs."

50% of MPs, including a majority of the current Cabinet to declare themselves effectively as GC is a huge achievement. There is a minority like Penny Mordaunt, who believe in TWAW but the vast bulk of the other 50% will be people, often men, who simply don't think the issue is important, or somehow too complicated and potentially toxic to bother with.

If you think about your workplace, or indeed most anywhere else, getting 50% of people to publicly confirm that they disagree with Stonewall/TRAs etc is pretty good. It certainly does not mean that the other 50% are going to be running around campaigning for self-ID. People views are not a binary.

In the same way as politics are not a binary. The majority are towards the middle, and willing to consider, or ignore either party.

ohnonowwhat · 12/04/2023 13:36

SidewaysOtter · 12/04/2023 12:51

The way to win an election, Labour Party, is to talk about the things your potential voters want to talk about.

But Labour don't want to listen, they want to tell voters why they're wrong if said voter has a different opinion from the Labour line.

I am so sick of the sanctimony and patronising attitudes of the present Labour party. I'd say I'm fairly lefty but I'm seriously giving consideration to voting Tory at the next election, largely on the self-ID/women's rights issue but also because I believe the present incarnation of the Conservative party (i.e. Sunak's administration, not that of May, Cameron, Johnson or - God forbid - Truss) is better placed to see us through choppy economic waters than Starmer et al. Labour have always been very good at sniping from the sidelines but not so good at coming up with costed policies. They can promise the land of milk and honey all they like, but it's got to be paid for.

I'm sure there are those who would throw up their arms in horror at someone choosing to vote Tory but they're the least worst option.

Exactly this. I've not voted for anyone for years now as they've all repulsed me but if it looks like Labour have a chance I'll have to vote Tory, I think even if they try and row back a bit on the trans thing I wouldn't trust them in the slightest. I would also be very worried about the economy if they're just hoping they won't have to pay for stuff cos "optimism" 🙄 The continued refusal to condemn or even really acknowledge tings like the grooming gangs is certainly another reason I would do all I can to keep them out of government. But maybe that's what they really want, they seem to enjoy life on the opposition benches where they can just snipe at the Tories without having to actually come up with any solutions themselves, maybe it's suddenly occurring to them that actually running the country will be a lot trickier than moaning about how other people are running the country.

Flowerly · 12/04/2023 13:31

SidewaysOtter · 12/04/2023 12:51

The way to win an election, Labour Party, is to talk about the things your potential voters want to talk about.

But Labour don't want to listen, they want to tell voters why they're wrong if said voter has a different opinion from the Labour line.

I am so sick of the sanctimony and patronising attitudes of the present Labour party. I'd say I'm fairly lefty but I'm seriously giving consideration to voting Tory at the next election, largely on the self-ID/women's rights issue but also because I believe the present incarnation of the Conservative party (i.e. Sunak's administration, not that of May, Cameron, Johnson or - God forbid - Truss) is better placed to see us through choppy economic waters than Starmer et al. Labour have always been very good at sniping from the sidelines but not so good at coming up with costed policies. They can promise the land of milk and honey all they like, but it's got to be paid for.

I'm sure there are those who would throw up their arms in horror at someone choosing to vote Tory but they're the least worst option.

I am thinking exactly the same. I am actually afraid that the LP will get in and I used to be a member. WTF?

ScrollingLeaves · 12/04/2023 13:11

Datun · Today 12:58
He does say his kids are in the house. But the very last thing in the video is him saying 'there's a little kid in the back of this car.'

My apologies, @Datun , you are absolutely right. I don’t know how I missed that last thing he said.

I believe the man who took the video not the police, and as I said the limbs looked frail.

Datun · Today 13:02
Also, thinking about it, apparently the police have arrested him. How would they know who was in the back of his car? He had time to get away from the guy filming, be fired by Uber, and wait to be arrested. Why would he still have the same person in the back of his car?

Unless he has arranged for someone to say it was them, who is an adult?

Quite. I hope there will be an expert in forensic measuring of things shown in the video footage in the back of the car to
eliminate any fictitious claims.

Datun · 12/04/2023 13:02

Also, thinking about it, apparently the police have arrested him. How would they know who was in the back of his car? He had time to get away from the guy filming, be fired by Uber, and wait to be arrested. Why would he still have the same person in the back of his car?

Unless he has arranged for someone to say it was them, who is an adult?

Datun · 12/04/2023 12:58

ScrollingLeaves · 12/04/2023 12:52

I don’t think he specifically said the person/child in the back seat was a kid.

I think he said ‘kid’ in relation to saying he had his kids in his house. Presumably the car was right outside his home.

He did say ‘What are you doing fucking and raping?’

The raped person in the back seat did not move. Perhaps they were even unconscious. I wonder if the police know for sure they are an adult? Their limbs looked small and frail.

He does say his kids are in the house. But the very last thing in the video is him saying 'there's a little kid in the back of this car.'

Datun · 12/04/2023 12:54

dimorphism · 12/04/2023 12:38

And also teachers and TAs ALREADY LOOK OUT FOR SIGNS OF ABUSE

And are rather good at it. What they often don't get is timely support once they've identified issues https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/fears-pupil-safety-safeguarding-referrals-result-no-action

The idea that additional 'monitors' would be in any way helpful rather than properly resourcing schools and safeguarding agencies so the teachers and TA can fulfil this role more effectively is the sort of top down, lack of understanding, 'we know best' attitude I expect from Labour these days.

It doesn't make any sense. I think she was caught on the hop. She said tney wouldn't be building any more more prisons to house these paedophiles, because they would be solving it with 'preventative' measures. Catching a paedophile by monitoring a child who is abused, isn't preventing anything tho. They will still need a prison.

It was such an obvious trap. You want to imprison 4,500 more criminals? So your plan to fund their accommodation is ?

Oh no, the money to deal with it isn't part of the solution! We have, er optimism!

It's like marketing a product that doesn't work, and you know it doesn't, and being utterly shocked when your customer says, go on then, switch it on, lets see it.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/04/2023 12:52

I don’t think he specifically said the person/child in the back seat was a kid.

I think he said ‘kid’ in relation to saying he had his kids in his house. Presumably the car was right outside his home.

He did say ‘What are you doing fucking and raping?’

The raped person in the back seat did not move. Perhaps they were even unconscious. I wonder if the police know for sure they are an adult? Their limbs looked small and frail.

SidewaysOtter · 12/04/2023 12:51

The way to win an election, Labour Party, is to talk about the things your potential voters want to talk about.

But Labour don't want to listen, they want to tell voters why they're wrong if said voter has a different opinion from the Labour line.

I am so sick of the sanctimony and patronising attitudes of the present Labour party. I'd say I'm fairly lefty but I'm seriously giving consideration to voting Tory at the next election, largely on the self-ID/women's rights issue but also because I believe the present incarnation of the Conservative party (i.e. Sunak's administration, not that of May, Cameron, Johnson or - God forbid - Truss) is better placed to see us through choppy economic waters than Starmer et al. Labour have always been very good at sniping from the sidelines but not so good at coming up with costed policies. They can promise the land of milk and honey all they like, but it's got to be paid for.

I'm sure there are those who would throw up their arms in horror at someone choosing to vote Tory but they're the least worst option.

dimorphism · 12/04/2023 12:44

I'm not watching the video, I can't stomach seeing that today, but I do honestly think woke warriors don't actually care how many women and girls are harmed as long as their ideology wins. And are perfectly happy to lie about 'it never happens' when we all know about White, Dolatowski, Jeska, Bryson, etc etc

It's very reminiscent of many periods in history when the same happened.

Floisme · 12/04/2023 12:42

....we’ve been talking about what we want to talk about

The way to win an election, Labour Party, is to talk about the things your potential voters want to talk about. Voters like me.

MarshaBradyo · 12/04/2023 12:38

Datun · 12/04/2023 12:36

“This has been a triumph. We’ve spent a week not talking about boats, not talking about trans or the other issues the Conservatives want to talk about — we’ve been talking about what we want to talk about.”

Interesting. I thought Kier Starmer said no-one is talking about trans. When what he meant to say is, I don't want to talk about trans.

I bet he doesn't!

Roll on KJK.

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegrylls/status/1645846782012801024

Yes we’ve spent a week focusing on bad Labour traits

Good one

dimorphism · 12/04/2023 12:38

And also teachers and TAs ALREADY LOOK OUT FOR SIGNS OF ABUSE

And are rather good at it. What they often don't get is timely support once they've identified issues https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/fears-pupil-safety-safeguarding-referrals-result-no-action

The idea that additional 'monitors' would be in any way helpful rather than properly resourcing schools and safeguarding agencies so the teachers and TA can fulfil this role more effectively is the sort of top down, lack of understanding, 'we know best' attitude I expect from Labour these days.

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