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Original poster

Starmer insults women’s intelligence to blame Sunak for judicial failures when it was Starmer’s CPS that failed to prosecute rapists

482 replies

IwantToRetire · 11/04/2023 00:25

I am so fed up with politicians and their seedy bully boy tactics.

So Starmer having failed to get personal approval from voters who rate Sunak higher than him, doesn't think maybe I should try harder to be more relevant to voters.

No he decides to roll in the gutter and use personal attacks. https://www.jackfm.co.uk/news/politics/labour-takes-inspiration-from-australia-with-sunak-attack-ads-but-they-need-more-to-pull-off-a-proper-ousting/

I'm not saying the Tories are blameless, but lets face it, it was/is the CPS who continued/s to fail to prosecute rapists even when the police present evidence, because the CPS only want to take on sure fire winning court cases to up their stats.

So not only has Labour tried to make out Sunak (who became as MP the same year as Starmer) personally doesn't want child abusers to go to prison, but now has plagerised women campaign's slogan about how rape has been decriminalised. https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/the-decriminalisation-of-rape/

And yet Labour still doesn't know what a woman is, nor have they re-admitted women expelled from Labour for saying women are biological females. But think our tiny emotional brains will be overwhelmed by their crass statements about women's issues.

Labour seem to think that because this sort of politcal sloganeering used by the vote leave party were sucessful during the Brexit campaign, that this is how they will win the next election.

Which is worse? That our politicians think voters are such dimwits. Or that they might be right. https://labourlist.org/2023/04/labour-attack-ad-rishi-sunak-crime-twitter-controversial-advert/

OP posts:
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Flowerly · 11/04/2023 18:24

TooBigForMyBoots · 11/04/2023 17:04

Self ID was a Tory policy, introduced in 2017 by Tory Prime Minister Theresa May. And passed into policies and legistlation by the TWAW Tory government.

Show quote history

Not the case.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/04/2023 18:09

Have only just had time to come back to this thread, and have read through quickly and was interested in responses.

Though get the impression existing loyalties (or none) remain unchanged re party poltics.

Not that happy that some on the thread think just insulting someone who says something they dont agree with is somehow a reasoned response, nor does it achieve anything.

Thanks to all who named various Australians, but as pointed out the Saatchi campaign, (well within my memory) was the first. Have no idea what outrageous flyers were posted during the victorian era - but suspect many where libelous, or would it be slander?!

Not feeling that I need to defend myself, but for various reasons had a nearly news free long weekend, and (for all those silly enough to think that was the reason for my post) it isn't because I am a Tory, but was genuinely shocked at the sheer tackiness of the ads - and that Labour thought it appropriate.

And maybe have been a bit pollyanna, but had thought that after all the Boris bombast, and Truss hyperbole, that UK politics was settling back into a more back to basics approach.

We all know the Tories do it because they have, so it does say more when Labour stoop to this. (Happy to be proved wrong by those claiming to be political wonks if they have evidence that Labour have done this before.)

I would have been only too happy if Labour had produced statements about the number of people living in poverty, without a home, etc., etc.. And acknowledging that Brexit, Covid and then Ukraine have caused huge economic problems. And that Labour would do X and Y to stop the increasing divide between rich and poor, create more housing, halt inflation.

So I am wondering now whether in fact part of the purpose of the statements they have chosen were in fact to appeal to the right wing red tops. ie they thought they would get the Mail etc., to be more supportive by going for these law and order, issues in, lets face it, a tabloid type way. Rather than Labour being its usual patronising approach to its voters who thinks these shouty "facts" will be a vote winner.

The problem is the right wing papers are presenting it as an own goal by Labour, so it has back fired.

And the stupid Labour interns or whoever dreampt this up are thrilled because they assume that something getting a lot of hits on social media this means a win - rather than people taking a look to have a laugh or sneer.

Like others on this thread I live in a Labour stronghold both MP and council (who are incomprehensibly incompetent and seem to think their role is to be a dutiful flunky to rich incomers). But if it was a knife edge area, I would wonder about giving my vote to Labour because of the self id issue, made worse by their grotesque pretence at caring about women's issues, but then insulting women and saying actually you dont exist because a man can be a woman.

They are so far up their own self righteousness, that they genuinely think anyone who disagrees with them is too dispicable to care about.

OP posts:
Datun · 11/04/2023 18:08

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 15:42

@Datun - you are correct on those points but the purpose is to set a general narrative- that is usually much more successful in terms of communicating messages. Both parties use this tactic, and while you may be engaged, I'm willing to bet that this does land in the way it is intended.

Not including colleagues... well, par for the course. Johnson did the same on Savile. Did that finish him off or was it a much bigger perception that he was a liar?

Perception is everything- people forget the detail.

To be honest, the point I was trying to make, is that this advertising campaign isn't 'policy'. It's some bloke doing it on his own, without telling anyone else.

And now everyone knows that. The perception is that it was a rogue person's decision, without telling anyone, and now they've all got egg on their faces.

Because, it's one thing trying to pick a hole in a Tory sentencing policy, it's quite another when the person ostensibly doing the picking is the one who's responsible for it.

And no, self ID was not implemented. Self ID would mean you could acquire a gender recognition certificate just by downloading a form and sending off a cheque.

What has happened, due to a relentless and widespread campaign by transactivists, like Stonewall, is that single sex exceptions have not been invoked. But they are there, and they can be.

And now, due to an equally relentless campaign by feminists, the government are starting to address the issue, by taking a look at the equality act.

Starmer needs to do the same. He needs to say that the term sex in the equality act means biological sex. All he has said is, that it does most of the time...

Complete bollocks.

FOJN · 11/04/2023 17:54

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:29

The point is that you can look up exactly what the Conservative Government were prepared to put public money behind and the principles. That meant male sex offenders in women's prisons.

They recently rewrote the guidance and changed the operating provisions. But previously, it was apparently all fine.

Institutional capture. It's happening all over the world regardless of the political leanings of the party of government. It hasn't happened overnight either we've just been slow to realise how far it has gone. If the Labour Party had won the 2019 election then, Judicial Review R (FDJ) v Secretary of State for Justice, would never have made it to court because self ID would have been made law.

My concern for the next election is that we will end up with self ID. There is no doubt in my mind that Labour will introduce it and if the Conservatives don't win an outright majority then they will have to form a coalition with another party who will make self ID a condition of supporting the Conservatives on other issues. I'm not deluded enough to think the Tories won't throw women under the bus if it's the only way for them to be the main party of government.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:29

The point is that you can look up exactly what the Conservative Government were prepared to put public money behind and the principles. That meant male sex offenders in women's prisons.

They recently rewrote the guidance and changed the operating provisions. But previously, it was apparently all fine.

Whaeanui · 11/04/2023 17:28

You do know this is what we talk about here right? We’re all aware because we’ve all been campaigning about this and we know exactly what the Tories did. Don’t follow Starmer in insulting the intelligence of the women here who have been sounding the alarm for years. The difference is labour has watched this and refuses to listen to women and will take it further and make it law. They’ve done that in my home county of NZ and it is much worse there than here with no chance of self ID being revoked anytime soon.

ResisterRex · 11/04/2023 17:27

perhaps they changed their mind

They changed the policy!

Shelefttheweb · 11/04/2023 17:26

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:25

You can look this up as a matter of public record. It's in the case law. Self ID ended up in women's prisons and was defended by a Conservative government as a lawful policy.

They won. So perhaps they changed their mind now, but they put it into effect, spent money defending it in the courts.

Case law would be the FWS case where it was determined that those without a GRC remain male in law.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:25

You can look this up as a matter of public record. It's in the case law. Self ID ended up in women's prisons and was defended by a Conservative government as a lawful policy.

They won. So perhaps they changed their mind now, but they put it into effect, spent money defending it in the courts.

Shelefttheweb · 11/04/2023 17:24

MarshaBradyo · 11/04/2023 16:15

People post on here you’re not who Labour is aiming at

Ok so where are they trying to connect. A quick google shows Starmer has written an article for the DM so that’s probably where

The comments make mn FWR look like a tea party. Not sure what his aim is but if it’s for every bad aspect of Labour to be mentioned it has achieved that at least.

Many of the people posting on here are exactly who labour should be aiming at: people like me who are centrist swing voters.

Whaeanui · 11/04/2023 17:24

Everyone here is well aware and has tirelessly worked hard to get the tories to listen and then enforce single sex spaces and single sex sports. Labour are not listening, they don’t care snd they haven’t changed their position. Which is to introduce self ID into law. So yes both are crap, one is quite clearly listening and the other refuses to.

ResisterRex · 11/04/2023 17:23

So the thread is at the stage where rewriting history about self-ID in political parties is being trotted out.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:21

It doesn't have to be written into law. All it needed was a succession of splineless politicians who signed off on self ID being implemented in women's prisons, and the Ministry of Justice litigating to defend that policy. That did not happen without a Justice Secretary agreeing to it. A Conservative one.

MarshaBradyo · 11/04/2023 17:20

ResisterRex · 11/04/2023 17:18

Self-ID has not been passed into legislation by the Tories. They've demonstrably rowed back from it.

The left has shown across many countries which way they’re headed and Labour is no exception

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:19

That is wrong. Self ID was allowed and implemented as part of Tory criminal Justice policy. That was introduced under a Conservative government.

ResisterRex · 11/04/2023 17:18

Self-ID has not been passed into legislation by the Tories. They've demonstrably rowed back from it.

Whaeanui · 11/04/2023 17:15

Self ID was a Tory policy, introduced in 2017 by Tory Prime Minister Theresa May

Incorrect. They proposed it, had a consultation and responded to it by announcing they were not moving forward with it. Women here responded to that consultation. As we also know, some institutions, sports and public spaces misread the Equality act and were given false information by groups like Stonewall, and implemented self ID in practice. That does not make it Tory policy and they did not pass it into law. The tories now, belatedly, are correcting this kind of misunderstanding of the law in various departments. They haven’t been great on this at all, but self ID is not a Tory policy. It is a Labour policy.

potniatheron · 11/04/2023 17:12

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 16:52

@potniatheron as a leftie I see the point but as an old leftie I also see something else. There is always this contingent in the Labour Party who insist that structural iniquity is the root of all oppression and thus that must be tackled and acknowledged first before any other measure is considered.

That sometimes includes measures to actually win elections. Labour tend to do rather better when they sit firmly on that section of the party and get super practical.

Red Wall voters are interesting - Labour won't get them all back. It will get some as is evident from the polling. There's not much point trying to outcompete Braverman on small boats for example. You would wait and then say, as is inevitable given the timings of her announcements, you've done nothing. The competence card.

Yes, absolutely that contingent exists, and they're just as childish and silly now as they were when Orwell savaged them in Road to Wigan Pier.

Labour will only win a majority when they show by words and deeds that they want power more than they want ideological purity. Starmer has shown that very well. But the rest of his front bench are still not wholly convincing I think.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 17:10

@TooBigForMyBoots - quite right. It's been a Conservative government that put men in women's prisons and allowed sexual assault and rape to occur. That is on them. Changing guidelines in the last six months, asserting zip all authority over the criminal justice system when it had the power to do so but didn't is weak and disengenuous.

TooBigForMyBoots · 11/04/2023 17:04

dimorphism · 11/04/2023 13:45

I can't wait until KJK's POW starts doing ads like this about Starmer.

And unlike this ad, however incredible they seem (e.g. Starmer advocates for male rapists in women's prisons) they'll definitely be true and demonstrably so for anyone who scratches beneath the surface.

Has anyone looked at whether 'woke' police forces are worse at actual crime than 'non woke'? Because all this time spent on KJK's wrongthink is taken away from something else.

The Tories need to sort stuff out but SOME of the crap things that have happened are due to the fact the police have insufficient accountability and have enacted Labour policies (such as self ID) which are not currently law. It's the whole Stonewall policy capture within organisations 'getting ahead of the law' and being 'progressive' (whilst removing rights from 50% of the population). And I can't see how Labour being in power is going to do anything other than make that worse.

Self ID was a Tory policy, introduced in 2017 by Tory Prime Minister Theresa May. And passed into policies and legistlation by the TWAW Tory government.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 16:52

@potniatheron as a leftie I see the point but as an old leftie I also see something else. There is always this contingent in the Labour Party who insist that structural iniquity is the root of all oppression and thus that must be tackled and acknowledged first before any other measure is considered.

That sometimes includes measures to actually win elections. Labour tend to do rather better when they sit firmly on that section of the party and get super practical.

Red Wall voters are interesting - Labour won't get them all back. It will get some as is evident from the polling. There's not much point trying to outcompete Braverman on small boats for example. You would wait and then say, as is inevitable given the timings of her announcements, you've done nothing. The competence card.

MarshaBradyo · 11/04/2023 16:45

Well that’s where he’s writing so someone must have advised these ads and follow up in DM as target audience

Maybe they’re solely focussed on the Brexit crowd as they were with the silly re-hashing of Take Back Control

Even the wife one went down like a lead balloon and I’d say that story got traction a while ago when it surfaced

Hard to predict the polls. Whether they continue to slip we’ll see but if it has been an own goal as many outlets from Guardian to Telegraph say then it’ll be fairly amusing.

People being pissed off with Tories gave them that lead, if people are just feeling the same re Starmer instead it won’t be great for Labour

potniatheron · 11/04/2023 16:44

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 16:36

It's a very small narrowing and it's one set of ads. I don't think you can say cause and effect.

Labour are ahead of the Conservatives in every single area of policy, including the economy and crime. Now that should be worked on, maintained, by any means towards the election. That is what any political party would do.

Give it a month. If the Labour lead on crime drops, you will have been right. Perception adjusted. If it goes up, then Labour will know they've hit the mark, Daily Mail notwithstanding

I think for me the main danger is that the attack ads will alienate the Labour IDPOL-Left (who tend to see crime in terms of structural oppression rather than strictly personal responsibility) whilst not convincing the Red Wall voters who have for many years regarding Labour as being soft on crime.

So they are aiming to triangulate the two voter blocs but end up alienating both blocs - as happened with Labour's position on Brexit in 2019.

LexMitior · 11/04/2023 16:36

It's a very small narrowing and it's one set of ads. I don't think you can say cause and effect.

Labour are ahead of the Conservatives in every single area of policy, including the economy and crime. Now that should be worked on, maintained, by any means towards the election. That is what any political party would do.

Give it a month. If the Labour lead on crime drops, you will have been right. Perception adjusted. If it goes up, then Labour will know they've hit the mark, Daily Mail notwithstanding

MarshaBradyo · 11/04/2023 16:15

People post on here you’re not who Labour is aiming at

Ok so where are they trying to connect. A quick google shows Starmer has written an article for the DM so that’s probably where

The comments make mn FWR look like a tea party. Not sure what his aim is but if it’s for every bad aspect of Labour to be mentioned it has achieved that at least.

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