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Original poster

What is a woman, by modern standards and definitions?

189 replies

mamakoukla · 07/04/2023 21:16

Outright - I’m a sex not gender woman. But I’ve reached the point of so what exactly is a woman, as defined by inclusivity to gender based identification? If woman is gender-based, what is a woman by that definition?

OP posts:
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Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 23:13

FriendofJoanne · 08/04/2023 22:40

I also don’t feel like a woman. I just am one - on account of biology. So does that mean I’m not a woman?

I think if I was playing the identity game I’d have to go non-binary or possibly gender fluid but I’m too long in the tooth for that malarkey.

So maybe we should all just use female instead of women. But I already see TW declaring themselves female (Veronica Ivy, Julia Serano).

We could call ourselves gibbertyflipitfudgeballs. Pretty soon we would have all the male gibbertyflipitfudgeballs wanting in on the action.

flyingbuttress43 · 08/04/2023 23:09

A woman is whatever some disturbed bloke with a penchant for dresses and flapping his wrists around says so. I mean obviously - Dylan Mulvany keeps telling us. We just never learn.

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2023 22:54

@FriendofJoanne it won't matter if we change what we choose to be called, those who wish to invade our spaces will simply decide to call themselves the same thing.

FriendofJoanne · 08/04/2023 22:40

I also don’t feel like a woman. I just am one - on account of biology. So does that mean I’m not a woman?

I think if I was playing the identity game I’d have to go non-binary or possibly gender fluid but I’m too long in the tooth for that malarkey.

So maybe we should all just use female instead of women. But I already see TW declaring themselves female (Veronica Ivy, Julia Serano).

WhiteFire · 08/04/2023 22:11

mamakoukla · 08/04/2023 21:29

While I appreciate some of the humour, I am a bit downcast about my lack of understanding on how and why an individual identifies as female (other than natal) and what are the essential aspects which define someone as a woman?

The thing is there is no answer other than it being a 'feeling'. The feeling can't be described or quantified and therefore anyone can be a woman on their say so.

It makes no sense whatsoever, but it is terrible to ask people to define it.

TL:DR You will never get an answer.

Mossstitch · 08/04/2023 22:03

I always thought that the actual meaning of 'woman' was .....man with womb.

FrosteeFlake · 08/04/2023 21:39

nepeta · 07/04/2023 21:42

The old class of 'women' has been eradicated. There's only one biological sex now and that is the male sex.

The new definition of 'woman' seems to be an idea inside someone's head (having to do with stereotypes about femininity), and that person can be of either sex and that idea doesn't have to even result in any external clues if the person is male and it can be temporary or permanent and the group 'women' can now be joined by anyone who wishes.

Though sexism and misogyny insist on using the old definitions, quite successfully, but we are not supposed to say anything about that.

Online I am told that asking this question is a 'dog whistle', probably because trans activists can't really answer it without revealing that most of us have been erased and our embodied identities invalidated, to benefit a tiny group.

Well put, but correct me if I have this bodged up... doesn't the female sex still exist when FtM want into exclusive male clubs and rights of primogeniture, and I'm sure pay on a male scale doesn't automatically fall into their laps.

And of course when hetro men want to date (watch porn or sexually assault) they all seem to know what a woman is.

Oop just realized your 3rd paragraph is a nod to this, posting anyway as this pisses me off.

Original poster
mamakoukla · 08/04/2023 21:30

Actually please disregard the how and why; just let’s keep to what defines the term woman please

OP posts:
Original poster
mamakoukla · 08/04/2023 21:29

While I appreciate some of the humour, I am a bit downcast about my lack of understanding on how and why an individual identifies as female (other than natal) and what are the essential aspects which define someone as a woman?

OP posts:
EmotionalSupportHyena · 08/04/2023 21:18

Shania says:

“The best thing about being a woman
Is the prerogative to have a little fun (fun, fun)”

Cyndi says:

“But girls, they wanna have fun
Oh girls just wanna have
… That's all they really want
Some fun
When the workin' day is done
Oh girls, they wanna have fun”

So maybe being a woman is entitlement to fun rather than just wanting fun, the way girls do?

Original poster
mamakoukla · 08/04/2023 21:02

@TheBlonde23 how do you define feels (feeeeeels) like a woman? That is, I’m trying to finds a description which explains not denies existence

OP posts:
TheBlonde23 · 08/04/2023 21:01

HagoftheNorth · 08/04/2023 17:20

A transwoman I know told me she had always known she would grow up to be a woman, and some of her earliest memories were of looking at her mother and believing she’d be like her some day. My daughter has early memories of believing she would grow up to be a fairy, and the disappointing day when she realised she wouldn’t.

The fact that, pre transition, this transwoman would rail against her father saying he would never accept her as a boy/man sheds some rather interesting light on her position though…..

I’m a gay man and I also grew up wanting to be like my mother. Luckily I have the common sense to realise that doesn’t mean I want to change my sex! And I’m just like her now, but also very comfortable knowing that in a man. Being male doesn’t change anything about me intrinsically save for my biology

TheBlonde23 · 08/04/2023 20:55

It’s anyone who feeeeeels like a woman, and there’s also plenty of natal women who are not women because they don’t feeeeeel like one.

and if you deny this, you are complicit in genocide and clearly wish the worst upon every trans person.

HagoftheNorth · 08/04/2023 20:40

taxpayer, you’ve made a number of snippy comments, but have yet to offer a definition - so there is no actual definition of ‘woman’ in the phrase transwomen are women? Maybe you could just say what the word ‘woman’ means to you?

To be fair to you, I’ve asked many others on these boards (BlueandRed, and Margarita to name just 2) and you would be the first to reply

Which rather proves that the OP is raising a very pertinent point

Original poster
mamakoukla · 08/04/2023 20:23

NotHavingIt · 08/04/2023 17:48

I'm not sure i understand your point?

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I’m not sure I fully understood your initial comment of “This is such a first world order of question, anyway. It exudes privilege.”

What is a first world order question?
Why does asking what a women is exude privilege?

I’m honestly confused by your comment, and also by how the world is redefining the term woman. To the point, I’ve always considered myself a woman but completely cannot get my head around self identification hence, how is woman defined if people identify as a woman?

I’ve spent a lifetime of sex-based exclusion as I’m not male. Barriers to acceptance, inclusion, opportunity, the right to an opinion, equal pay etc. I’m simply trying to understand what woman is, in terms of identifying as a woman rather than being born a woman.

OP posts:
AmuseBish · 08/04/2023 19:45

Scroll on by, wims

NotHavingIt · 08/04/2023 19:20

WhiteFire · 08/04/2023 18:01

I was posting tongue in cheek, but you are correct that as it stands woman means what anyone wants it to mean.

A little more seriously though, man / woman is not actually a feeling, but identity politics tell us that "we are who we feel" that it ends up that "feeling like a woman" is the absence of "feeling like a man" . But no one really feels like a man or like a woman.

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Quite!

The times when I have personallly had 'that feeling', though, has been after having given birth, or in circumstances in which my female body is centre.

NotHavingIt · 08/04/2023 19:16

TheCentreSlide · 08/04/2023 18:12

@NotHavingIt So GP is hopefully clearly stating that he is NOT a four year old girl. It’s an attempt to access a feeling. And in no way makes him female or a girl.

Yes, of course!

Grayson Perry's memoir 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Girl' is a good read. He is very honest and very insightful about his own cross dressing.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 08/04/2023 19:00

taxpayer1 · 08/04/2023 18:55

How does it feel to talk nonsense?

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Where is your alternative definition then?

Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 18:57

taxpayer1 · 08/04/2023 18:55

How does it feel to talk nonsense?

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I speak sense so I wouldn't know.

How about you! How do you feel about what you say and write?

taxpayer1 · 08/04/2023 18:55

Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 18:53

Yep! Gaslighting.😁

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How does it feel to talk nonsense?

Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 18:53

taxpayer1 · 08/04/2023 18:52

Gaslighting 😂😂

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Yep! Gaslighting.😁

taxpayer1 · 08/04/2023 18:52

Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 18:39

A woman is an adult human female. Any responses that rely on feelings, clothes, circular definitions or because I say so are just gaslighting.

Gaslighting 😂😂

LemonadeSunshine · 08/04/2023 18:48

Adult human female. All day, every day. That's it.

Boiledbeetle · 08/04/2023 18:39

A woman is an adult human female. Any responses that rely on feelings, clothes, circular definitions or because I say so are just gaslighting.