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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I know many are sceptical re: Matt Walsh but this is so worth watching...

193 replies

AnotherDayAnotherView · 05/04/2023 12:29

Matt Walsh stumps a trans EMT:

"A trans EMT tried to use his medical training to prove that sex is not binary. He ran into trouble when I asked him how he’d respond to a patient with a penis who claims he’s having a miscarriage." https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1643450523235028995?cxt=HHwWhsDUteTi2s4tAAAA

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1643450523235028995?cxt=HHwWhsDUteTi2s4tAAAA

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Notatmine · 07/04/2023 07:16

PorcelinaV · 06/04/2023 22:20

That makes sense. That tweet did not seem consistent with his Catholicism or other things I have heard him say.

DemiColon · 06/04/2023 23:01

But men on the right/center right do listen to PP when she appears in the media, and even to JKR though she is seen somewhat on the right as a person who has in the past accused the right of being bad people, so isn't likely to be as popular.

Someone like Candace Owens might be a more popular female voice on the right, being right wing herself. She talks more about id politics than gender, but she's a popular pundit even though she's a woman.

Fluffymule · 06/04/2023 22:56

DemiColon · 06/04/2023 22:24

The Catholic position is pretty straightforward, all human life counts as a person at the same level, so killing someone deliberately at any stage, or in any condition, carries the same moral implications. As far as I know that's Walsh's position.

But this idea that a Walsh is listened to when women aren't - I don't really agree. I think that Walsh is reviled on the left. Just like JKR or PP. Any difference in vitriol IMO is because he was never on the left himself. Men on the left or even in the center who have spoken out to any significant degree are largely now considered right wing baddies too, GL for example, or Jordan Peterson for that matter. People on the right or even in the middle seem happy enough to listen to all of these people.

Right-wing and centre-right men (and women) will listen to Matt Walsh, whereas they wouldn't (at least until recently) listen to left wing women, like JKR or any feminist trying to bring this subject to a wider audience.

So there is an element of a pincer movement in trying to get the left to listen to certain people with a profile, and getting the right to listen to the same messages but from someone else.

In these polarised times, with people applying purity tests to people before they are deemed listenable, I think it's the only way to drive momentum across politically and ideologically diverse audiences.

hamstersarse · 06/04/2023 22:44

The part where he listened to a transwoman and realised he shared all their thoughts and feelings, so he too must be a..... transwoman.

I thought that was an interesting admission of social contagion - a thing that is desperately denied by TRAs.

DemiColon · 06/04/2023 22:24

The Catholic position is pretty straightforward, all human life counts as a person at the same level, so killing someone deliberately at any stage, or in any condition, carries the same moral implications. As far as I know that's Walsh's position.

But this idea that a Walsh is listened to when women aren't - I don't really agree. I think that Walsh is reviled on the left. Just like JKR or PP. Any difference in vitriol IMO is because he was never on the left himself. Men on the left or even in the center who have spoken out to any significant degree are largely now considered right wing baddies too, GL for example, or Jordan Peterson for that matter. People on the right or even in the middle seem happy enough to listen to all of these people.

PorcelinaV · 06/04/2023 21:54

Delphinium20 · 06/04/2023 20:55

He also thinks 12 year old girls who have been raped don't deserve an abortion.

I disagree with Matt Walsh, but I think that's just the Catholic position, so it's not surprising.

PorcelinaV · 06/04/2023 21:44

Notatmine · 06/04/2023 20:34

I think this means that half the sexual encounters in his life have been sexual assault.

Is he a convert to Catholicism then? Surely if he were a life long catholic he should have only had sex with his wife?!

It could just mean something like he was drunk, and the girl was drunk, and he doesn't think that is really "taking advantage".

PopGoesTheProsecco · 06/04/2023 21:02

Delphinium20 · 06/04/2023 20:55

He also thinks 12 year old girls who have been raped don't deserve an abortion.

OMG 🥲that’s terrible.

Delphinium20 · 06/04/2023 20:55

PopGoesTheProsecco · 06/04/2023 20:26

OMG - kind of new here and didn’t get OP’s health warning about Matt Walsh now I get it!!

He also thinks 12 year old girls who have been raped don't deserve an abortion.

Notatmine · 06/04/2023 20:34

PopGoesTheProsecco · 06/04/2023 20:26

OMG - kind of new here and didn’t get OP’s health warning about Matt Walsh now I get it!!

I think this means that half the sexual encounters in his life have been sexual assault.

Is he a convert to Catholicism then? Surely if he were a life long catholic he should have only had sex with his wife?!

PopGoesTheProsecco · 06/04/2023 20:26

OMG - kind of new here and didn’t get OP’s health warning about Matt Walsh now I get it!!

I know many are sceptical re: Matt Walsh but this is so worth watching...
Delphinium20 · 06/04/2023 19:33

*I am glad he can do it. But it doesn't make it less galling to know that If women's opinions were respected, we could have punctured this ideology years ago.

Yes it's a complicated place to be.*

Kara Dansky says that if we could be heard we would win. That's how I feel and I agree it's galling that a right wing man talks and everyone listens. The problem for US feminists is we're also fighting for abortion rights, which Walsh opposes. So if less critical minded viewers of Matt find his GC arguments compelling, which they are, it stands to reason we will LOSE support for abortion rights from the easily swayed.

I do appreciate that TRAs spoke at this event because every time they do, the sunlight show the truth.

The sheer misogyny of it makes me seethe. Women shouted down, assaulted and attacked for doing the same as a man.

Kernackered · 06/04/2023 18:33

Eurgh, Sara pascoe manages to shoehorn in TWAW every time she's on monkey cage. sanctimonious pillock

Brefugee · 06/04/2023 18:18

I'd really like to hear a conversation on that topic between Brian Cox and Robin Ince tho.

CaveMum · 06/04/2023 17:29

It's interesting that the episode of IMC I linked to above is from 2016, before much of the current nonsense started, and that both Robin Ince and Sara Pascoe are perfectly happy discussing biological differences between the sexes back then, but are both firmly TWAW now, though in both their cases I imagine it's a case of "career induced" backtracking rather than actual belief.

CaveMum · 06/04/2023 17:27

As far as I was aware, they have yet to find actual differences between "female" and "male" brains that cannot simply be put down to the normal size differences between men and women.

Certainly that is what Professor Sophie Scott (Prof of neuroscience at UCL) was saying in 2016 on this episode of The Infinite Monkey Cage The Infinite Monkey Cage - Series 14 - Battle of the Sexes - BBC Sounds

As for why GI has been able to perpetuate, particularly among younger folk, I do think a lot of it is due to lack of critical thinking. Whether it can be traced back to a failing in global education systems, or if it is just general apathy among the population I don't know. Social media alogorithims mean it's very easy to end up in an echo chamber and if people don't know (or can't be arsed) to fact check and look for primary sources/actual peer reviewed science rather than relying on opinion pieces or the hearsay of others then it's easy to see why so many people can fall down a rabbit hole.

The Infinite Monkey Cage - Series 14 - Battle of the Sexes - BBC Sounds

Brian Cox and Robin Ince and guests discuss the biological battle of the sexes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07lfrjs

pickledandpuzzled · 06/04/2023 17:23

It's hard to imagine a sense of self that entirely relies on the agreement of those around you. Like a kind of real life 'AIBU?'.
Desperately walking round at constant risk of being misgendered, and vanishing in a puff of outrage.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 06/04/2023 17:03

There are quite a few brain MRI studies indicating self perception difficulties in both FtM and MtF individuals.

They don’t show similarities with opposite sex, non trans controls.

I think it would be great if gender dysphoria could be diagnosed via brain scans, it would hopefully end any potential social contagion and lower the risk of regret and detransition.

Transactivists deride this as the ‘truscum position’.

I know many are sceptical re: Matt Walsh but this is so worth watching...
Notatmine · 06/04/2023 17:03

I think it said structures. A quick google search will bring up quite a lot of papers on this. Its definitely an area being studied.

Helleofabore · 06/04/2023 16:57

Notatmine · 06/04/2023 16:22

As for the brain structure thing, I have seen some research on this, done with very small samples. It doesn’t threaten my GC position. It seems to me entirely reasonable hypothesis that there may be a biological basis to feelings of gender dysphoria, in at least some people. That doesn’t make someone a woman. This research, as I understand it, is not saying that TW have female brains, but suggesting that they have some similarities in some parts.

The counter argument in the literature is that the differences are due to cultures and lifestyle.

It’s definitely an area of debate.

Structure or reactions within the brain?

Because female brains are structured according to their small skulls, aren’t they? They certainly have more delicate fibres and are more prone to damage as the Swansea Uni research pointed out.

I think that hormones affect the brian differently too. So estrogen, even artificial estrogen, has a different effect. Is that right?

The one I like though is that different activities create similarities over time. So if you were a male but were interested in activities that were considered for comparison to be more ‘female oriented’, then that will create similarities to ‘female’ brains.

Datun · 06/04/2023 16:49

SinnerBoy · 06/04/2023 16:03

@Datun

I pondered something similar a few days ago, on another one about Matt Walsh. I definitely think that they're not brave enough to go all aggressive against a man.

And the blonde lady was another one who had to think long, to try to concoct answers. She went from knowing loads of trans people, who'd been saved from suicide, by puberty blockers, to only having heard of some.

As for her claim that anthropologists being able to tell that a skeleton was a transw, because their brains develop differently - learned at 16 in an anthropology class! She claimed to know it was true, that she'd literally checked it right before speaking...

Yet couldn't remember a source, which should have been fresh in her mind.

I mean, you can draw whatever conclusion seems most logical.

No, they can never back anything up.

Not altogether surprising...

Datun · 06/04/2023 16:47

Notatmine · 06/04/2023 16:22

As for the brain structure thing, I have seen some research on this, done with very small samples. It doesn’t threaten my GC position. It seems to me entirely reasonable hypothesis that there may be a biological basis to feelings of gender dysphoria, in at least some people. That doesn’t make someone a woman. This research, as I understand it, is not saying that TW have female brains, but suggesting that they have some similarities in some parts.

The counter argument in the literature is that the differences are due to cultures and lifestyle.

It’s definitely an area of debate.

The study I read, albeit about eight years ago now, said something along the lines of you could tell the difference in the brain structure, but it was the part that deals with self image. And that obsessing about self image, or body image, could create the alteration.

The same area affected by anorexia, apparently.

I don't know if that sounds plausible or not, to be honest!

EmotionalSupportHyena · 06/04/2023 16:42

Notatmine · 06/04/2023 16:05

I want to meet a ‘sex is a spectrum’ person in real life as I want to ask them what the resulting humans look like from a coupling of two people who are neither male nor female, and how that reproductive process works.

I’d like to ask them how they know what sort of contraceptive is required and which person has to use it.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 06/04/2023 16:33

I’m also wondering if the current generation have a less secure sense of self generally due cultural shifts and changes in parenting style, less grounding in a local community where everyone knows each other, less time spent in face to face real world play with friends known from an early age, fewer long term friendships, less contact across the generations, too much time online where visuals are very important, a tendency to encourage narcissism being part of the online world, the ability to cut off communication with anyone who doesn’t agree with you and the tendency to encourage hostility also associated with online interactions etc etc

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