Transmen

Ooh...I'll have the....

Like fuck!

Thanks for the offer but I'll pass!

Just like I'll pass on the demand I accept men in my spaces!

Another analogy:

I have a box of 50 chocolates. 48 are delicious. One will injure you badly and will probably leave you with a lifetime impact. One will kill you.

But the other 48 are great, so go on, help yourself.

But on a road where the road is identified as having played a part in injuries and fatalities, yes, actions are taken to reduce the risk. Speed limits. Traffic calming measures. Additional lanes.

It is only in this situation that women are told that to accept the risk of harm is for the greater good.

Considering the outpouring of rage regarding the EHCR's belief that reserving spaces for women that are for biological women only, and that while additional spaces should be provided (see her article in the Times this morning) there must be a need for single sex provided spaces to be respected by male people, and that being for the greater good?

It is not a reciprocal thing at all. Like most of the demands of the activist lobby on women.

Women are entitled to consideration of privacy, dignity and safety equal to the consideration provided to male people of TQ+ identities. And sacrificing women's rights and needs and access for the better freedom of males? It's been a disaster because of attitudes such as:

it'll probably never happen
NAMALT
you can tell the police if you get raped
reframe your trauma.

All of which work equally well to explain to a male person that they should use the men's facilities, but again... reciprocation not a feature of this movement.

How many women and girls is it ok in your eyes to be harmed before you decide it’s a problem?

How many people is it ok in your eyes to be harmed on the roads before you decide it’s a problem? None of this is ok. You’re using a type of logical fallacy so there’s no point in this continuing.

The likelihood of being attacked by a trans woman in a public toilet is so incredibly unlikely and rare you could argue it’s not something women ‘need to be especially concerned about’.

But women feel safer in single sex spaces. They have a right to a safe place, especially when using the toilets. Males are not welcome, regardless of what they're wearing or how they are presenting themselves.

Oh do go and tell that to Katie Dowalskis 10 year old victim. Attacked by a male with a trans identity in a toilet. How many women and girls is it ok in your eyes to be harmed before you decide it’s a problem? 10? 20? 100? No males in female spaces solves that problem doesn’t it?

Once again for those at the back, it's males we'd like to stay out of single sex spaces. Don't care what they're wearing. Don't care what they're identifying as. Don't care what their motivation is.

Don’t disagree entirely but the same research that is often used to claim trans women have a rate of sex offending equal to males a) does not actually specifically highlight sex offending and b) does show trans men have a pattern of violent offending similar to males.

so not something women need to be especially concerned about in a public toilet.

The likelihood of being attacked by a trans woman in a public toilet is so incredibly unlikely and rare you could argue it’s not something women ‘need to be especially concerned about’. You’re more likely to die in a terrorist attack or car or by a man you live with. But anyone is free to be concerned about what ever they like of course.

These are all sex by deception cases (Stonewall are pushing for this to be decrimimalised), so not something women need to be especially concerned about in a public toilet.

Once again, female pattern of offending rather than using strength (I dont condone the deception and I do think it ahould be prosecuted).

Not a distinct lack, no.

Tarjit Singh
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/trans-man-gender-women-sex-toy-sexual-assault-tarjit-singh-b1015043.html

Carlos Delacruz
https://nypost.com/2018/09/05/trans-man-jailed-after-tricking-women-into-sex-with-fake-penis/

Kyran Lee
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/woman-pretended-man-wearing-body-6719202

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/22/justine-mcnally-pretended-boy-schoolgirl-virginity_n_2930676.html
(not really a trans man just a lesbian. But if people are who they say they are…)

The transman in my work uses the womens toilet since she is female. I don't think my male colleagues would be too impressed with a female colleague walking in on them using the urinal

The female colleague using the urinal

The transman in my work uses the womens toilet since she is female. I don't think my male colleagues would be too impressed with a female colleague walking in on them using the urinal, which you have to walk past to get to the cubicle.
I don't think many do pass tbh. It's partly why I find it difficult to say he, my colleague is very petite and in no way masculine other than some facial hair from hormones. They are definitely not physically stronger than me nor are they in possession of a penis.
They are female so the women's toilet is appropriate.

Freddy McConnell making absolutely no sense on World at One today, about 34 min in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001kpzf
(Johnny Dymond using “assigned at birth” but I’ll assume that’s from ignorance, I emailed to say “don’t”.)

Distinct lack of any cases coming to court or into the press of TM perpetrated sexual assault though.

What sort of crimes? Burglary? Theft? Or sexual attacks?

It didn’t specify, just as it didn’t for male to females.

Research has shown that female to male trans people develop a similar pattern to males of violent crime.

What sort of crimes? Burglary? Theft? Or sexual attacks?

Talk to women who are gender non conforming about life in the past. They have been accused of being men and beaten up. "trans activism" isn't to blame.

What sort of crimes? Burglary? Theft? Or sexual attacks?

Talk to women who are gender non conforming about life in the past. They have been accused of being men and beaten up.

But not by women wanting female only safe spaces!

All sorts of people might have been 'beaten up' for being different - but that has nothing to do with women's need for safe female spaces.

female-to-males had higher crime rates than female controls (aHR 4.1; 95% CI 2.5–6.9) but did not differ from male controls. This indicates a shift to a male pattern regarding criminality and that sex reassignment is coupled to increased crime rate in female-to-males. The same was true regarding violent crime.

Research has shown that female to male trans people develop a similar pattern to males of violent crime.

Had you forgotten?

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

The problem of women's space has only become a problem because of the current trend - there was not an issue before hand. My concern is that this ideology has allowed people to adopt a sex/gender of their choice which then has caused this issue. The mobilisation of large numbers of teenagers who in my view are being manipulated has made the situation worse. I hope this trend passes but until it does I believe if you born male you use male facilities and if you are born female you use female faculties.

That ^^

It has actually been answered multiple times, you just didn't agree with the answer.

Female people need female only spaces. Everything else is a different problem.

There is a very particular demographic who have made this their raise d'etre. This very specific group of women absolutely love involving themselves in people's business, they get off on 'policing' others. The psyche of this particular demographic will never cease to amaze me.

THIRD SPACES ARE AN OPTION. I don’t know how many times we’ve said this already but it’s A LOT.

Surely you can’t want us boring-old-cunty-women to be in charge of rule-making for transmen?

No males in female spaces is the bit we care about.

The rest is for transmen, transwomen and boring-old-penis-men to negotiate between them.

We aren’t your collective Mother, tasked with sorting out everything for everyone.

We are asserting our own boundaries, which is that single sex spaces for female people be reserved for actual female people.

If some female people want to grow beards and not use the female single sex facilities, that’s fine, but it’s not our job to negotiate with the penishavers on behalf of transmen.

Page 8 and it's still not clear where trans men go to the toilet.

Lots of assumptions about what trans people wear, the need to smile at anyone harassing you in the loo and how easy it is to tell what gender someone is, but no consensus. The closest to agreement seems to be that they'd use the woman's unless they frightened anyone by being too manly and passing (although you can always totally tell) in which they'd be sent to the men's.

Women wanting female only spaces are not beating anyone up, (activists are breaking women's skulls though), and giving up and accepting that male people can control their boundaries is not going to happen.