Transmen

I wasn't the person claiming you can tell from the size of hands and feet, I read that on here. Maybe explain that to the people who think it is true.

What ID do they produce? Most things will just have a name on won't they and that doesn't prove anything, I was named after my father but I am a woman.

Yes, you can often tell by the hands and feet - just having big hands and big feet doesn’t mean you’re a man, though?!?!?!

You can tell a man’s hands from a woman’s hands; a man’s feet from a woman’s feet - size is not the only determiner. You realise that. Right…..? 🫤

I suffer id demands at least once a week. I'm 5 foot nothing, weigh less than 8 stone and am a 28AA on a good day. That combined with a bunch of stupid freckles over my nose and cheeks make me look, at first glance, about 12 years old. It's the way it is. I accept that I will be asked for proof of age, despite being 37 years old and a mother. Why can't manly women accept the same? You get to challenge me every time I try to buy a drink. I get to challenge you if you don't look right in my space.

Life is a bridge, get over it and stop throwing a load of whataboutery to confuse a non-problem.

Why are women saying it is an issue then if it isn't an issue?

Sigh. If they pass they will use the men’s loos. Same for transwomen, the few that pass will use the ladies. You know this, we know this. So stop with the wide eyed whataboutery, it’s crap and you know it.

Anyway, no one would ever pretend to be trans to get in women’s spaces remember?

Sorry 'whole demeanour'

I've read on here many times that you can tell from the hands and feet

I don't think it's just the hands and feet - it's the same hole demeanour and the way someone walks and speaks - it's pretty obvious!!

I just feel sorry for a woman who is hounded out of female toilets because she doesn't fit some template of what a woman is supposed to look like.

This is the way it is and has been headed for a while now. A lot of women would be wise to think very critically where they stand on this as they too will be next on the chopping block.

I don't know if it happened before, I guess we'd have to ask women who don't fit the template. Either way if it is happening now that isn't OK is it. I've read on here many times that you can tell from the hands and feet and I can tell you my DHs nieces who are over 6ft tall have big hands and feet but they are women.

Don't you feel any sympathy for a woman being humiliated by being told she can't go in the women's toilet? It would be so embarrassing, so yes I feel for them and maybe being short isn't that bad although I've always fancied being taller.

I just feel sorry for a woman who is hounded out of female toilets because she doesn't fit some template of what a woman is supposed to look like.

That has never been a problem in the past (until males invaded our space) and I think most of us can tell pretty easily if someone is male or female - it's pretty obvious!

Is that for me? I don't have an agenda, I just feel sorry for a woman who is hounded out of female toilets because she doesn't fit some template of what a woman is supposed to look like. I don't dress in a very feminine way, I spend my life in jeans and t shirt or jumper but it is OK because I'm 5ft 3in and not muscular but if I was my husband's niece I'd be worried about what I should wear.

You're really not interested in discussion are you? Or in the subject. Just on your own agenda.

But what are those women supposed to do? My husband has two nieces who don't fit the stereotype, I mean on here if you have big hands and feet your are male, well they are female and over 6ft tall with size 9 feet and big hands so to some that "proves" they are men even though they are women.

Exactly this.

‘Masculine presenting’ (fuck my life that I even have to type that load of stereotypical nonsense) women are only being questioned BECAUSE men have taken to invading our single-sex spaces.

What are we going to do with the female humans excluded by all this progressive wonder?

I mean I know they're just boring old worthless females, but is all the talk about the importance of kindness, inclusion, embracing diversity, intersectionality real? Or was it just a lot of manipulative wankery to benefit male humans?

Up until the point where any man who said he was a woman could just walk into the ladies loos we didn't have a problem with women being routinely mistaken for men. I doubt that is actually happening now either.

But if that is happening now on an increased level it's 100% down to women now expecting there to possibly be a man there and being hyper alert and over compensating.

This problem isn't down to women suddenly being mean it's down to men putting some of us on edge because they have invaded our safe single sex spaces.

Is any answer but women saying 'fine, men get all the spaces, women accept the biological burden of being excluded, while lying that sex doesn't exist' ever going to work for you?

Do you have any thoughts on how we help women excluded by males wanting everything all the time and making everything impossible for them?

Abject surrender and female exclusion for male happiness. Yay male supremacism.

So if two independent people say you are male then you are male? So it isn't down to biology then, is that right?

So myself, as a woman who presents to some people more 'masculine', someone would be able to get me kicked out the toilets/woman's spaces if they didn't like the way I looked?! Or didn't believe I was a woman. Just because I dont look how they think I should, that's far too subjective.

If two separate independent people are convinced you're male, that's conclusive enough for me.

If you're actually female, I do not believe this has ever happened to you, nor will it ever happen to you. (If you're male, then of course it will happen all the time).

Maybe someone mistaking a woman as male at first glance, sure, and maybe it's conceivable one person might for some strange be convinced a woman was male, but two in a row? Nope.

Has this (being kicked out of the women's toilets) been happening all your life?

If so, how did you used to manage?

If not, what changed?

I have to be honest that I don't see a big role for enforcement unless someone on either side decides to break the law. If you were to enter a loo that I was in and I mistook you for a man I would question your right to be there. You would tell me that you are a woman. I would apologise and feel embarrassed for both of us.

Job done and I would walk away thinking that I shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Still doesn't give any excuse for a male to come in.

Yeah the trans activist position is:

men are fine, we like it, shut up and put up. Women are being excluded/have lost equality of access/equality of humanity - but fuck that, men are happy! So don't change anything!

But we keep hearing how the answer to men having caused this problem for women, and excluded them, it's the job of women to bend a bit more, accommodate, stop whining, just be excluded quietly -

what exactly are trans activists offering women here to help with this mess they have created in their own agenda with serene lack of fucks to give for inclusion, kindness, diversity, all those big words they throw around constantly?

But what you're saying here is:

women cannot protest someone they think is a man in their space, in case it's not a man and hurts feelings.

So women must have men in their spaces and shut up about it, to avoid offending anyone.

And that means a good number of women will just have to accept being excluded from women's spaces so that men can use them without anyone objecting. (In case of offending a woman.)

As opposed to:

a) a woman explaining that no, she's a woman and it's ok

b) everyone accepting that before men started using women's spaces with total disregard for how they presented/with swords/death threats/yada yada women did not ever have to worry how a woman presented because they knew, whether feminine or not, she would be a woman. This is a problem CAUSED by male transactivists. Who's solution is that having done this to women, their abuse victim stops upsetting everybody by protesting the abuse. It's Women's Aid 101.

c) men just respecting, however they identify, that females need a space where they are not having to worry that the person next to them is a man. Because women have needs for accessibility and inclusion too.