A little victory for Ireland regarding pronouns after huge backlash

scapegoats like trans people, refugees etc

Nothing has been said here about refugees except profound sympathy for any refugee woman who could end up in a hostel with a transwoman,

As for the 'etc' if even you don't know who they are, don't drag them into the discussion.

You seem confused. Why is it you think that those of us who know trans people might be less concerned about the erosion of women’s sex-based rights and protections?

Have you ever thought that people don't discuss it with you because of what the fallout could be?
If someone you knew said transwomen are not women, would you still be friends, or would you cut them out?
Silence on an issue doesn't mean agreement as a lot of people are now finding out.

I think people who post on this forum about teams rights have made their minds up and are desperate for any hint that there is a backlash. But I know lots of people who know, are friends with, or are just respectful of trans people. They know Barbie Kardashian is not typical.
Most people are focused on the very real problems affecting Ireland and aren't being distracted by these attempts to focus on scapegoats like trans people, refugees etc. So I'll just leave this here, most people on this thread will have a different opinion but if someone's scrolling through - in my experience there's still strong support for trans rights. And people aren't being scornful, or going on about 'Pissy' like children!

Country size too - if you look at the list of self ID countries the majority of European ones (and NZ) are around the 5 million population or less. Much easier for a small number of activists to sneak it through in a small country.

IIRC the Malta law change was really driven by a single person?

Canada is a big country land wise but population size is less than the UK and it’s very spread out and has two languages - presume as with Aus once broken down into states/regions it becomes manageable sized chunks for under the radar activists to influence?

A lot of the bigger countries seem to have a lot of Catholic cultural influence…

@NotHavingIt they were lucky to be able to observe what happened in Scotland & what's happening here.

It is interesting to consider why the push back in the U.k has been far more pronounced and advanced than elsewhere?

And thankfully, it got going before Self Id was introduced in the way it was in some other countries - without public awareness or debate.

No, not intended for you, @StephanieSuperpowers — just a general refutation of the idea that the ‘backlash’ consists of the old-fashioned and reactionary.

I think you may have taken the complete opposite of my point, @Feemie .

I will point out that I spent my teens unable to access legal contraception or abortion, stickering public toilets with the abortion information helpline and I travelled to England with two friends who had to borrow and lie to get over on the ferry, and bleed secretly in a cheap BnB and on the boat home because of Ireland’s legislative position on women’s bodies. I know exactly what it’s like to be a woman, and I worked to make Ireland a safer place for us to be. The fact that I see women’s safety as more important than autogynophilia or delusion, does not make me Enoch Burke.

@StephanieSuperpowers I think many are cottoning on that allowing men into women's spaces is not progressive. It is anti progressive. It is giving men free reign in our spaces. I'm watching the UK very closely & it looks like change is going to happen. Our government need to heed what is happening accross the water as many oppressed Irish women are hoping for similar here & that's not up for debate.

Personally I think this is why there's a backlash. There is only so far you can push by silencing dissent and telling people they're like, totally uncool and probably would have locked women up in Magdalen laundries or left women to die for want of an abortion. Most people will stop when you start telling them that. But when you come for their kids, you can call them all the names under the sun if you haven't actually thought about what you're asking people to permit and persuaded them that it's a good idea for well thought out reasons.

No debate got us this far but it has left the TRAs stranded and unable to formulate any proper argument now that everyone wants to know why, exactly, you want to teach primary school children that they can be born in the wrong body (without giving a second of consideration to what this may mean for disabled children in the classroom), that children can change sex and that there can't be single sex toilets.

https://gript.ie/kerry-school-backs-off-on-three-floors-of-gender-neutral-toilets-after-backlash-from-parents/

Another little victory here regarding the gender neutral toilets in Co Kerry. Between this & the Gardaí not using prounons it seems like the pushback is gaining momentum very quickly. And getting desired results.

I wonder how many TWAW would feel like a woman if they were locked in M&B homes and ML for the crime of being female.

This wasn't reported on RTÉ at all. It's a shame they feel they cannot inform the general public on this. It's very relevant to the current mood in the country especially after the Burke case.
Surely this raises the clear argument that if public sector workers such as the Gardaí (who also need to work with minors) do not have to use pronouns neither should teachers.
Would love to know the Burke's opinion.

Every conversation I've had about Enoch Burke (and there have been quite a few over the last six months) has started with 'I don't agree with the way he's behaving with the courts and the school management, and the Burkes are a weird bunch BUT . . .'

and developed into deep misgivings about encouraging genderism, particularly among teenagers, often with illustrations of young people who went down the rabbit hole to their own detriment. Then it goes on to Barbie and football and changing rooms and loos, and then to comparisons between the genderists and the church power structures and George Gibney et al and how none of them have the interest of women or adolescents at heart, and then the Kerry CAMH scandal in the HSE (not about gender but utterly about inappropriately drugging children with mental health issues).

Enoch has accidentally done women a favour by providing a wedge to start the debate.

Admittedly I'm old, and the youngest person I've discussed this with was in their late 20s and most much older, but NO-ONE has been pro-genderism.

Anyone over the age of 24.

Anyone with normal coloured hair.

I believe many people here, the general feeling was they wanted to believe they were progressive & had left all the church stuff behind. Irish people are of course not some homogeneous mass with a hive mind.

There has been something akin to censorship with the Irish media not reporting on the effect of trans rights on women’s & children’s right.

When confronted with what progressive apparently means, Barbie, Guilia, School stuff they question it.

Even stuff the delectable Pissy is writing…friends who didn’t want to know Are scrutinising what he is saying.

And what a fine pair of poster girls you have to illustrate your points!