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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

EA petition EHRC are in favour of reviewing the definition of sex

222 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 04/04/2023 15:12

Sex Matters update

The petition worked. The full letter from the EHRC is worth reading.

https://twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1643236702322847745?s=46&t=4ig9oxXX7RdmDKwsMsuh1Q

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Floisme · 07/04/2023 14:20

Does that mean there will have to be a parliamentary debate now? I kind of hope so as I assume that would force Starmer to give his MPs some kind of direction, even if it's just to allow a free vote. It could show us just how much control he has over his own party, which will be very helpful in deciding where my general election vote goes.

nilsmousehammer · 07/04/2023 14:19

Which is exactly where it conflicts with women's rights, yes.

Freedom for men to access female single sex spaces is incompatible with female people having accessible female single sex spaces. It's one or the other.

1% of the population or 52%.

ResisterRex · 07/04/2023 14:10

The counter petition has got to 100,000 signatures:

twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1644264513250656258?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I wonder if they realise what this says in that petition? Namely, that they're riding a coach and horses through the law undermining men and women as distinct sex classes, thereby proving the need to clarify the EQA. But also they're saying they're protected under "sex". Which doesn't weaken the case for clarity around that definition. Bizarre wording:

"Currently, the Act protects trans people from discrimination on the basis of both sex and “gender reassignment”, regardless of whether they have undergone medical transition or hold a Gender Recognition Certificate. It can allow trans people to access single-sex spaces such as DV shelters, bathrooms and hospital wards."

GailBlancheViola · 07/04/2023 12:57

Excellent article by Michael Foran.

Inevitable that the intellectually challenged TRAs would go for him.

ResisterRex · 07/04/2023 12:04

Article today by Michael Foran, who the TRAs were just yesterday trying to get sacked:

thecritic.co.uk/ministers-must-grasp-the-nettle-on-equality-law/

"There is no way to avoid grasping this nettle. The law needs definitions if it is to work."

The trying to get him sacked part, which isn't working:

twitter.com/michaelpforan/status/1644283631056171010?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

twitter.com/proftomkins/status/1644053503524982802?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

twitter.com/robertcraig3/status/1644071733333311490?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

ScrollingLeaves · 07/04/2023 10:37

It shouldn’t be ignored. The way that statement is shown in quote marks will mean thousands of people take it as being true.

Those same people who take this as fact may well never read the actual letter she wrote.

ResisterRex · 07/04/2023 09:34

Now I'm on the right thread...this screenshotted post from KM is quite wrongheaded and unhelpful. Perhaps the EHRC/Falkner will take Action, or just ignore it:

twitter.com/famedtrust/status/1644089225128574977?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

ResisterRex · 07/04/2023 09:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Queenofscones · 06/04/2023 20:17

Oh, sit-ons only these days for me at sea because of similar issues — but yes, everything is designed for men.

I'm currently looking for a new van. I've done my back in on the old one, having to reach right over and down to put on the handbrake. They're designed for orang-utans with massive long arms.

Tinysoxx · 06/04/2023 17:14

Queenofscones · 06/04/2023 16:51

I've just applied for this year's canoeing licence and they want my gender. I'm just paddling up and down the river in a kayak.

To be fair I nearly drowned once as the sea canoe I was in didn't let me exit after capsizing as my hips were too big and at the ‘wrong angle’ apparently. I was a size 10/12 but do have big hips. Funny how I was the design fault.

Queenofscones · 06/04/2023 16:51

I've just applied for this year's canoeing licence and they want my gender. I'm just paddling up and down the river in a kayak.

Bienemajas · 06/04/2023 16:05

In German the word 'Geschlecht' (gender) continues to be used to define whether someone or something is male or female

Well, on all official forms it asks what your gender is - male or female!

No mention of 'sex'

ResisterRex · 06/04/2023 16:00

Maya's link got me thinking about the way forward. I wondered if Iain Anderson had ever taken up any offers after his "big tent" chatter. I can't see any but this is the thing I remembered:

twitter.com/mensnetwork1/status/1587903432408666117?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Were there signs that Stonewall would speak to groups like GMN, LGBA, Sex Matters and so on? My searches may have been poor so thought I'd see if anyone else ever saw anything.

NotHavingIt · 06/04/2023 15:58

Bienemajas · 05/04/2023 18:05

It is the fact that ‘gender’ was used initially that lowered the awareness of these changes being made in the first place.

Why has the English language changed how gender is used?

In German the word 'Geschlecht' (gender) continues to be used to define whether someone or something is male or female.

No, it denotes masculine or feminine attributes - not sex.

NotHavingIt · 06/04/2023 15:56

...just like 'gender reveals'

NotHavingIt · 06/04/2023 15:56

Bienemajas · 05/04/2023 15:50

I Wonder why parents talk about 'gender' reveals rather than 'sex' reveals?

Because this nonsene 'gender' business is largely a U.S invention.

Chersfrozenface · 06/04/2023 15:49

Bienemajas · 06/04/2023 15:46

Helen Belcher: asking the EHRC: "how I, as a transwoman, would be able to live any form of public life if I was effectively barred from women's spaces?"

As a biological male she can use the men's spaces, can't she?

And campaign for third gender neutral spaces.

Bienemajas · 06/04/2023 15:46

Helen Belcher: asking the EHRC: "how I, as a transwoman, would be able to live any form of public life if I was effectively barred from women's spaces?"

As a biological male she can use the men's spaces, can't she?

nilsmousehammer · 06/04/2023 15:38

Helen Belcher: asking the EHRC: "how I, as a transwoman, would be able to live any form of public life if I was effectively barred from women's spaces?"

The issue being that many female people are now effectively barred from women's spaces by male people such as Helen, and Helen has had no problem with that whatsoever.

And that female people constitute half the population and have rights too.

nilsmousehammer · 06/04/2023 15:32

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 06/04/2023 11:39

Have a look at his Twitter bio. He’s not an impartial observer on this topic. He has a clear vested interest. Mermaids Trustees

And as a former director perhaps things are now clearer on why advice from the EHRC in previous years has been confused and unable to recognise female people's rights as equal to male people with TQ+ identities.

UtopiaPlanitia · 06/04/2023 14:40

ResisterRex · 06/04/2023 13:46

Maya has collected some of the hyperbole. And the receipts:

www.forstater.com/time-for-civil-debate-yet/

That’s an eye-opening read Rex. Thanks for posting the link.

ScrollingLeaves · 06/04/2023 13:47

WeeBisom · Today 11:05
Is it devastating because they can no longer muddy the waters and take female only spaces away from us ?

Yes.

ResisterRex · 06/04/2023 13:46

Maya has collected some of the hyperbole. And the receipts:

www.forstater.com/time-for-civil-debate-yet/

jellyfrizz · 06/04/2023 13:31

WeeBisom · 06/04/2023 11:05

I have seen a lot of hyperbole about how treating the word “sex” in the equality act to mean “biological sex” would be devastating to trans people , but no one has ever explained why this would be so. Trans people can already be excluded from single sex spaces, but the ambiguity they have created around the meaning of sex and gender means service providers aren’t confident in making female only spaces. Is it devastating because they can no longer muddy the waters and take female only spaces away from us ?

This just shows the mantra of “sex is separate from gender” is bollocks. Trans women in effect want two protected characteristics all to themselves - gender re assignment AND protection on the basis of being the female sex. If sex had nothing to do with gender as they keep saying then no amount of redefining of “sex” should affect them.

the reality is that trans women are having a massive tantrum because the law could no longer be used to uphold the delusion that they are women.

Yes, it's like the 'self-ID has nothing to do with women' argument. How can it be both?

ResisterRex · 06/04/2023 13:29

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2023 13:14

What particularly annoys me is the crap about the government 'manufacturing a fake culture war' coming from the group that sort to turn the idea of being a woman into a quasi-religious belief based on regressive gender stereotypes to suit themselves with no regard to women. It was deliberately largely done by stealth with it on record that part of the tactic was to pass legislation 'under the radar' and to crush any debate.

The only group that created a culture war is the one who decided that thousands of years of understanding biology was wrong and that womens safety and dignity should come second to men's.

No. We were never consulted and every effort has been made to shut down women's concerns. For years.

The law is not working. It needs review. Law needs public consent.

Absolutely. And it's happened - it seems - all across the western world. It's not isolated to little old "TERF island". Not by a long shot. It's an internationally coordinated attack on women and children.

Sooner or later, one country has to stand up and say no, enough is enough. Let that country be ours.

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