Community sentence for rape of a 13 year old

The comment about him arriving to court in tears annoyed me.
If he was genuinely sorry he would have pleaded guilty and spared that little girl a trial in the first place.

Scotland . Where woman and children don’t matter and count for nothing.
Utterly disgusting and disgraceful but that’s what we need to accept from the Scottish government. Nicola Sturgeon is a disgrace.

If the SNP believe that a 24 year old isn't old enough to be accountable for their actions, then why on earth have they given the vote to 16 year olds? Never mind allowing children to make irreversible changes to their bodies.

Rehabilitation my arse!!! Its a greenflag to twisted minds. This infuriates me so much. I'm disgusted in the judge, thinking that is acceptable! Woman and children will never be safe

Here is what he was accused of: https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-man-accused-raping-schoolgirl-24158530.amp

"Sean Hogg is accused of threatening the 13-year-old – who can’t be named for legal reasons – youngster before forcing her to have sex with him on multiple occasions."
"He is also charged with raping her while she was asleep and incapable of giving or withholding consent."

"In addition Hogg, 20, is charged with sexually assaulting another under-age girl at an address in Penicuik, Midlothian, by touching her buttocks, thigh and breasts and attempting to touch her vagina on various occasions between 1 October and 30 November 2017."

"A jury at the High Court in Livingston was told that Hogg, of South Lanarkshire, had lodged special defences claiming each of the girls consented to sexual activity with him."

It wasn't even the first time he'd attacked her:

"Hogg attacked the victim, 13, on several occasions between March and June 2018, when he was 17, court documents show. He also assaulted the teenager by threatening her and pulling down her clothing. He then grabbed her by the wrists and raped her"

The most shocking part of that article was that the most time given for raping a 13 year old child, is 5 years. Wtaf. The bar to secure a conviction for rape is set so high that very few are successfully prosecuted. But if they are, the sentence is a joke.

Thanks @NumberTheory was unaware.

I’m really horrified by my home country right now. Women and girls under the bus, time and time again.

So according to the Scottish government, a person is old enough at 17 to be able to be set on the gender pathway, and request dangerous drugs with unknown side effects and surgery to remove healthy parts of their bodies, but they can be convicted of rape because they are too young. People can get married at 16 in Scotland, join the army, leave school, but they’re too young to be convicted of rape. The Scottish government really really hate women don’t they?

I’m horrified by these sentencing guidelines , my dd1 is a teacher , is her brain not mature enough to do the job?

It feels dangerously like incitement to vigilanteeism.

Agreed. If the courts are going to be this atrocious at achieving justice, then it almost feels like the moral thing to do is to avoid the trauma of a court case for the victim.

To be found guilty of raping a 13 year old, the jury would have to be convinced the girl did not or could not consent.

The age of consent is, technically, 13, not 16. Sex with someone 13 - 15 yrs who consents is still a crime, but it’s the crime of “Sex with an older child”, it’s not rape. It’s a much lesser crime and wouldn’t be referred to as rape by either the court or the papers (because - libel).

Meanwhile, the head of Rape Crisis in Edinburgh is a transwoman, so male, and has told survivors to "reframe their trauma".

The message from Scotland is loud and clear: the Scots, or at least the ones in power, think women and girls are worthless.

I'm quite keen on Scottish independence now, just to get rid of the misogynist bastards.

Did you read the article?

Court papers stated Hogg, of Hamilton, South Lanarkshire, threatened the girl, seized her by the wrists and forced her to carry out a sex act before raping her.

In any event, she was thirteen. Children cannot consent to sex. Not ever.

If the youth of the offender matters, why doesn't the youth of the victim?!

In Scotland (and England and Wales, probably NI too, but I haven’t checked), there is no statutory rape law for children over 13. If someone is convicted of rape of a 13 year old, the child cannot have been consenting. The idea that the law can make rapists of a couple of teenagers fooling around is another misogynistic myth.

Sex with a consenting child over 13 is a crime, but it isn’t the crime of rape. In Scotland it’s the crime of “sex with an older child”. It’s under the same statute (Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009) but it isn’t rape and won’t be referred to as rape by the courts (or the papers - as that would be libel). It isn’t considered nearly as serious, as evidenced by the sentencing guidelines and the guidance to prosecutors that makes it clear the offence should not be used instead of prosecuting rape to try and secure a conviction when the child isn’t consenting because it seriously misrepresents the nature of the offence.

It does.

Criminal law was created to stop communities handing out their own violent justice. When the legal system fails this badly, it makes it so much more likely that violence will be the end result.

And, all this ‘brains aren’t mature until 25’ is such total nonsense. For most of human history, humans only lived until about 30. Deciding that the brain of a 25 year old is the norm that all younger brains are merely progressing towards is joke science.

@Gymrabbit
You said something that I thought was wrong, might get reported and, if others latched onto it, might result in the thread being taken down. I'm not going into it any further because I don't want to derail.

@Shelefttheweb
The guidelines apply to a group of offenders - under-25s of both sexes, I assume - rather than a type of crime - MVAWG. I agree the guidelines are terrible and that not just Scotland but the whole world is a cesspit of misogyny at the moment in all its hideous forms but the guidelines themselves are not misogynistic. The "individualistic approach" to sentencing seems to me to erase the victim and their experience. In this case that effect is egregious because the rape is so personal and the victim is so young. However, whatever the crime is, the guidelines say that the judge has to focus on the effect of any sentence on the aim of rehabilitation of the offender. It's not that the guidelines are motivated by misogyny, it's the effect of them in this instance. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to split hairs, honestly!

Arseholes. He raped a young girl. I don't care that he was 17 at the time. She fucking wasnt! She'll still be remembering when he's long forgotten what her name was.

I am not for one minute trying to condone this, but am wondering if there was some sort of relationship between them...as I am struggling to understand how more than one encounter in a public park happened? How could they have met up on more than one occasion without some level of consent (coerced? Some kind of abusive relationship)? I read his defence was that each sexual act/encounter had been consented to...

A man who carried out multiple rapes on the same child likes it. He's going to bloody love getting away with community service.

It's horrific.
DH has a colleague whose family have been affected by a tragic event and finally the perpetrator is going to trial. Despite the seriousness of the crime, DH's colleague has been told that it's unlikely there will be a custodial sentence as he is under 25.
The crime above happened very close to where I live and the community is angry.

Sorry, I see someone already responded. I'm a bit confused, now. He's appealing community service? FFS.

The sentence is being appealed as too lenient.

'Donald Findlay KC, defending, told the court an appeal was planned.
A spokesperson for the Crown Office said: "As with all cases, the Crown will consider the sentence and give consideration to whether it might be unduly lenient."'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65164041