Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen

<le sigh>

and here I thought we were having a discussion where we all talked to each other like human beings

I'm picturing a Venn diagram. One circle is "posh, white women". The other circle is "women who care about women". There is no intersection .

Yes I think I've heard her speak about him. I like him too.

I thought you were saying it was true she'd done an interview with him.

dunno re interviews, but (at the risk of sounding like a fangirl myself), Posie went to see him when he played some arena here in 2018 or so and a photo of her with him was posted here on on twitter or somewhere. she's definitely spoken in the past about her admiration for him.

can I find the picture or the post? can I heck

Pretty much the entire existence of Black Feminism is black women being critical of black men who were good on race and terrible on women’s rights (and of white women who were good on sex and bad on race.) So I do think it’s always important to take what’s good and build on it but to not be afraid to criticize as well.

99% sure KJK hasn't been interviewed by JP or vice versa. I would have listened! I'd love to see that conversation - it would be weird, I think, though I'm sure they'd get along.

I think KJK would do great on Rogan, though. I really hope he's getting her on!

He's interviewed Helen Joyce, Abigail Shrier and other feminists. He supports women against TRAs. He and Meghan Murphy both made submissions against Canada's compelled speech rules.

He was interviewed a few years ago by Cathy Newman and then Helen Lewis, both of whom made total tits of themselves, tbh.

I don't believe he has said racist things - I'd like to see the links before I join in any condemnation.

I see your point.
But does this work in reverse? If a particularly good anti racist campainer were terrible on womens rights issues, does that mean you can't agree with them on that bit?

Polics, unlike sex is not binary and purity spirals etc is a type of self divide and lets others rule.

Anyway, the same people who are quick to talk about KJK being a Nazi are quick to indulge in racist invective against Black women, like the ones telling Aja the Empress to go back where she came from, etc

Too true

it's fine for people to criticise KJK as long as they stick to the facts
Yeap and as long as it is constructive criticism.

no, I don't think we are either!

I honestly don’t think we’re really disagreeing!

Anyway, the same people who are quick to talk about KJK being a Nazi are quick to indulge in racist invective against Black women, like the ones telling Aja the Empress to go back where she came from, etc.

it's fine for people to criticise KJK as long as they stick to the facts

my problem starts when they start making shit up (not saying you do / have done this)

we had a real life example on this very thread

a poster interpreted a tweet inviting people to bring their eggs to an event on easter sunday as an invitation for men to bring hens eggs to pelt the women in the crowd with. it was just bizarre. anyone with any kind of good faith take interpreted it as being about chocolate eggs. so weird

Yes, I’m sure they are white women! Maybe I’m making a hash of my point - my issue isn’t with KJK, I’m just saying I’m also uncomfortable with lots of the right wing men who have jumped in who aren’t about my rights and I don’t disagree with criticizing them and their political goals. I was only trying to say why, for me, some of the dismissal of the issues with these men is uncomfortable and I don’t think it’s wrong for people to criticize that and it’s unfair to suggest they endangered her by doing so. That’s all.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

Fair enough, I thought you were uncertain. I must admit I stop listening when Posie starts talking off piste

It was Helen Lewis.

Dunno about JBP and KJK.
He's just a social conservative, as far as I can see.
A perfectly normal viewpoint, shared by many, who have happy fulfilled if imperfect lives. But no life is perfect.
Maybe he's racist too, I don't know, haven't followed him exhaustively, obv don't condone that if true.

But also, most of those same Black women aren’t with right wing men and their anti-Blackness. My point is only it’s not wrong to criticize them.

you’re absolutely right @Misstache i think that does need to be called out, my problem is those feminists slating KJK and accusing her of ridiculous stuff just for talking to people.

dunno if I'm getting it wrong, but I think most of the women who get really unhinged on the subject of KJK are white aren't they? certainly the ones I could name

A lot of Black women that I know admire the bravery of KJK. I thought she was great in the way she confronted the BS with Lia Thomas. Lots of Black women love that she stays about it. Lots of Black women also love how JK Rowling doesn’t back down or take any shit. Most regular Black women aren’t with the extremist TRA stuff and take offence at white men claiming they’re more oppressed than us because they put on a dress. Black women aren’t with having the word mother or women taken from us. Most of us aren’t down with being told we can’t talk about our periods or pregnancies. So most Black women are so-called terfs and definitely feminists on the continent/Caribbean are so-called terfy in that they centre actual women and our bodies and motherhood. The problem isn’t with KJK.

But also, most of those same Black women aren’t with right wing men and their anti-Blackness. My point is only it’s not wrong to criticize them.

loathe to make a big deal of it, but it's true, honest guv

to be fair, it's always been pretty clear that Peterson is tremendously dull, verbose and wilfully obscure, which were my main problems with him

he also is yet another man who really loves gender and thinks women are making a bit of a fuss. I read him as a massive chancer just making the most of his time in the sun. he's judith butler adjacent

I'm not surprised if he's said bloody stupid things on the subject of race

I think she did an interview with him, and he has been supportive of LWS I think

she's fangirled him a bit in the past

I find that hard to believe. I think they belong to completely different worlds, frankly.

One brave feminist, I can't remember which, did interview him one time and he showed zero respect, chopping and changing the subject to get away.

Ahhh I see. So now we have to purity check anyone we may fangirl at? Bloody hell! When are we supposed to get time to actually do stuff?

she's fangirled him a bit in the past

She probably passed him In a street once …..

I think she did an interview with him, and he has been supportive of LWS I think