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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Journo asks NZ PM Chris Hipkins "what is a woman?" He can't answer

144 replies

JacquelinePot · 03/04/2023 08:28

You really have to laugh otherwise you might cry

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CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 11:38

missyounot · 03/04/2023 11:05

Oh these "gotcha" type threads are so '90s. Times have moved on in some parts of the world, thank god.

Hipkins is a very capable politician of high integrity. I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence.

I absolutely promise you that in the 1990s you would not have found a single politician who was unable to answer this incredibly basic question.

There is nothing retro about world leaders beclowning themselves in this manner, it is a uniquely contemporary phenomenon.

CruCru · 03/04/2023 11:38

JK Rowling has just tweeted about this. She is a really funny tweeter.

JellySaurus · 03/04/2023 11:34

I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence

How bizarre and unhealthy that you cannot see that you are describing the people who gratuitously attacked KJKM and other women.

Myalternate · 03/04/2023 11:33

missyounot · 03/04/2023 11:05

Oh these "gotcha" type threads are so '90s. Times have moved on in some parts of the world, thank god.

Hipkins is a very capable politician of high integrity. I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence.

Don’t be silly, it’s not hatred, it’s incredibly unfortunate that he was unable to answer a very simple question. I genuinely feel sad for him and anyone else that has been captured by the bizarre and extremely unhealthy belief someone can change their biological sex through thought alone.

Actually, if it wasn’t so funny, it’d be tragic. 😂

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:28

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 11:27

How on earth did he figure out he was a gay man if people don’t come in two distinct sexes?
Surely you’d have to know which is which to know you only fancy one or the other? Or you’d be bi?

He was trying to make the point that 'woman' is a social construction.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:27

Whaeanui · 03/04/2023 11:26

In fact I had one gay man tell me not so long ago that there was a " no such thing as a woman" 🤔 how would that work then? Who birthed him.

A body with a uterus no doubt.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 11:27

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:23

In fact I had one gay man tell me not so long ago that there was a " no such thing as a woman"

How on earth did he figure out he was a gay man if people don’t come in two distinct sexes?
Surely you’d have to know which is which to know you only fancy one or the other? Or you’d be bi?

SinnerBoy · 03/04/2023 11:27

@WickedSerious

The date on my father's birth certificate is wrong but he was never allowed to change it.

My name is spelled wrong on mine. I went through school not knowing and was issued an NI card with the correct spelling. I applied for a passport at 19 ( in 1989) and was surprised.

My dad said, "Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that, we didn't notice for years."

I asked to correct it and was told no. The passport office were fine about it.

Whaeanui · 03/04/2023 11:26

In fact I had one gay man tell me not so long ago that there was a " no such thing as a woman" 🤔 how would that work then? Who birthed him.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:26

missyounot · 03/04/2023 11:05

Oh these "gotcha" type threads are so '90s. Times have moved on in some parts of the world, thank god.

Hipkins is a very capable politician of high integrity. I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence.

On the contrary it seems New Zealand has some catching up to do. The situation there is like it was here about five years ago. It will be interesting to watch it gradually start to unravel.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:23

In fact I had one gay man tell me not so long ago that there was a " no such thing as a woman"

landOFconfusion · 03/04/2023 11:22

Whaeanui · 03/04/2023 10:55

i don’t want someone who made racist remarks about my family, since deleted, to @ me or quote me.

Says the person who keeps on denying my whakapapa…

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:21

When ' a woman' is merely a category of human being that anyone can appropriate and then colonise then it is women who are disappeared. When you cannot even use the word 'woman' without having to first qualify it; and when the words used to name and describe the female body and its biological functions are forbidden then it is women who no longer exist.

Rainbowshit · 03/04/2023 11:21

missyounot · 03/04/2023 11:05

Oh these "gotcha" type threads are so '90s. Times have moved on in some parts of the world, thank god.

Hipkins is a very capable politician of high integrity. I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence.

You don't think it's vital for politicians who say they wish ti protect women's rights are capable of defining the section of humanity they are talking about?

How can we protect women's rights if we can't be defined?

And no. We're not moving on. We're just getting started.

WickedSerious · 03/04/2023 11:20

FrancescaContini · 03/04/2023 10:52

Couldn’t agree more.

What in God’s name is the point in the first place of a birth certificate if you’re allowed to alter it at a later date?

Are allowed to change the date and place of birth, too?

You render it meaningless if you change it.

All to appease a vocal deluded minority.

The date on my father's birth certificate is wrong but he was never allowed to change it.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:17

When your existence

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 11:16

We your 'existence' is dependent on people accepting, without question, a false premise or a belief in an intangible 'something' then that existence is always going to be very shaky. Secure identities are built on firm foundations and do not require continual validation from everyone.

WeeBisom · 03/04/2023 11:15

Something extremely chilling about this is the word “woman” has now become undefinable, something so opaque that you literally need to sit and study to prepare a coherent answer to the question “what is a woman?”, or it’s become such a politically dangerous topic that everyone knows what a woman is really but are too scared to say it. Both are terrible for women’s rights. We make up half the population and have been oppressed for thousands of years , and now we can’t even get leaders of the country to say what we are ?

I did find it telling the very first word he said was “sex”, but then he panicked and back pedalled so that a woman is anyone who self identifies as one. And of course the sheer idiotic incoherence of such a statement is never exposed. A woman is anyone who self identifies as what ? What is the thing they are self identifying as ?

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 11:13

GCMM · 03/04/2023 11:01

He knows what a woman is. He knows that we know he knows what a woman is. And he doesn't care and will lie anyway, as it is the only way to save his career.

It’s so weird that he just took over from NZ’s third female PM (only Finland & Switzerland have had more, and only Iceland, Lithuania, Poland and the U.K. have also managed 3) yet he seems to have forgotten what made the previous PM a woman.

If people just self define as women, why so few women PMs? 3/41 is a bit sad, perhaps he should self ID and make it 4?

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2023 11:12

landOFconfusion · 03/04/2023 11:07

A name has to be officially registered in order for a birth certificate to be created.

Changing the registered name because or a court order is simply an example of a circumstance in which the official birth records are altered. But that alteration doesn’t seem to upset people who claim the records are sacrosanct.

Entirely different cases.

Names are not based on physical, scientific reality. Sex is.

Sex is binary and immutable, people are one sex or the other and cannot change their sex.

cosmiccosmos · 03/04/2023 11:10

Year or two!

cosmiccosmos · 03/04/2023 11:10

A prime minister who needs to prepare to answer the question 'what is a woman'. Shameful and embarrassing for NZ.

However our next prime minister will almost certainly be Kier Starmer. He's has no problem defining a woman and confirmed it on LBC this morning when he stood by the fact that indeed a woman can have a penis.

This was after he said that violence against women and girls is a priority. So that's violence against anyone basically. If you can't define 'woman and girls' properly you can protect them, you can't produce stats to say you have, you can't produce stars to prove you have made progress.

So those saying 'ooooh how embarrassing for NZ' as if they are stupid (which they are), this is the uk in a year or to.

landOFconfusion · 03/04/2023 11:07

NotBadConsidering · 03/04/2023 10:58

Lots of countries don’t allow stupid names. And that article just says a girl was given a new name, presumably in a similar process like deed poll, nothing about changing the birth certificate.

And a name is entirely subjective, a choice, not an immutable fact like sex, date of birth, place of birth.

A name has to be officially registered in order for a birth certificate to be created.

Changing the registered name because or a court order is simply an example of a circumstance in which the official birth records are altered. But that alteration doesn’t seem to upset people who claim the records are sacrosanct.

missyounot · 03/04/2023 11:05

Oh these "gotcha" type threads are so '90s. Times have moved on in some parts of the world, thank god.

Hipkins is a very capable politician of high integrity. I am genuinely sad for posters who can only fling hatred for someone of whom they know nothing. What a bizarre and unhealthy existence.

landOFconfusion · 03/04/2023 11:04

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 10:43

What’s the point of an archive that can’t be viewed?

Can’t be viewed by the public.

Not all records are public nor should be public. It’s no different to unlisted phone numbers not appearing in the telephone directory.

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