My husband

I'm so sorry that you have such difficulties in your life and I do wish things could be easier for you. I am a working class woman doing a manual job on miniumum wage. My brother has just lost benefits during his second gruelling battle through the PIP process. He is unable to work due to multiple physical and mental health issues. I don't know how we will cope with his financial situation. I experience how the current government does not help people in ongoing, tough situations daily and, if because of this I made you feel like I was telling you how to vote then I am sorry.

My disgust at this government and the way they treat ordinary people just makes me desperate for change.

This. I have a male family member who says it's not a big issue, and I just tell him he's got no skin in the game and has no right to tell women what they find important. It usually shuts him up.

I'm a working class woman who lives in a deprived area with a disabled partner whom I have supported through the dehumanising PIP process and the dismantling of the NHS, especially mental healthcare. You don't have to tell me about the effect of Tory policies, which is why I'll never vote for them.

You still don't get to tell me how to use my vote or to vote for a party that lies about something as fundamental to healthcare, education, prison policy etc as "what is a woman?"

One woman harmed is one too many. Show him Sarah Summers's crowd funder for legal action against a rape counseling service and ask him whether even one rape victim should have to choose between having a male in the session or no session at all.

RealityFan - In those circumstances I would not almost certainly not vote Labour, but they have never in word or deed suggested they would support any of those things.

Every vote is an evaluation based on lived experience, information and the promises made in the manifesto. I'm not a lifelong Labour voter. In fact given the Tory safe seat where I live now a Labour vote in the next GE will most likely be wasted. Unless things change I will vote for the party with whom I am most aligned AND who have the most chance in this constituency of unseating the Tory candidate. I want Labour to have a chance, but more than that I don't want more of what the Conservatives have visited on this country.

Well, I may disappoint you yet. I have massive cognitive dissonance on voting Labour.

Starmer is allowing gender to be a wedge issue. Noone can blame GC voters, he is exclusively the author of his own problem here.

He has no issue formulating positions on Brexit, anti semitism, Corbyn. Yet he's running scared of activists and leftist cultural overreach on gender.

If Labour promised the Earth on NHS etc, rape prosecutions funding, affordable housing and childcare etc, but also we're going to legislate to outlaw abortions, bring in capital punishment and the birch in schools, deport all migrants to Rwanda, would you still vote Labour?

RealityFan - we are agreeing furiously. I am so heartened to read that a many times Conservative voter is so appalled by this lot that they want them out. Let's hope that these wedge issue tactics don't work.

So, what happens when everyparty crosses one of your red lines?

I am going with least overall harm which I think is the Labour party.

The thing is, when you vote, you only get to put an X. That's it. There's no 'because' box to add some extra explanatory text.

Indeed not.

This would also hold true if you put your X in the Labour box because NHS, but it is indistinguishable from an X because you believe that humans can change sex and ideologically impure people who don't share your beliefs should be prosecuted. (See, for example, how it was repeatedly said that Remainers who had lent Labour their vote in 2017 were evidence of 90% of the electorate supporting Brexit).

Thing is, everybody has their red lines on why they will or will not vote for a given party. So, what happens when every party crosses one of your red lines?

This is my view exactly.

It's not as if the Tories are all that reliable on the issue anyway.

The thing is, when you vote, you only get to put an X. That's it. There's no 'because' box to add some extra explanatory text.

Your X put next to the Tory candidate based on what you see as a better approach to women's rights is indistinguishable from the X of someone who's mainly motivated by a desire for lower taxes and who doesn't care that essential public services are falling apart. Or the X of someone who's voting Tory because they support removing the rights of refugees and agrees with Suella Braverman that human rights are for wishy washy liberals.

Your vote won't be interpreted as a vote because of one policy you like, but general support for the Conservative manifesto and what they've done during their entire time government.

On most issues I find myself strongly disagreeing with Tory policies and if I had to choose one to weight above all others it would be climate change. Because some issues can be reversed in a few years if the other party gets in. If the NHS is destroyed, it might take a couple of generations to replace it. But if we (globally) don't start cutting emissions in the next 5-10 years, and trigger climate tipping points and positive feedback cycles, that's it. No chance to fix the damage we've done and we've totally screwed it for future generations for what - thousands, millions of years? Before anyone jumps in, I know we only have a small part to play in this country, but we are definitely screwed if all countries carry on refusing to listen to scientists on the basis that none of the other governments are.

We're now in a place where the parties are totally contradictory on their missions and previous performance ratings.

Conservatives hike your tax, don't stop crime, can't maintain borders, don't conserve.

VOTE FOR US!

Labour can't define women, turn a blind eye to male activist misogyny.

VOTE FOR US!

It's not the Tories weaponising culture wars.

The war comes from the TRAs.
The inability to define women as adult human females comes out of Starmer's mouth.
Labour has chosen to ally with intolerant bullies who intimidate women. But as he can't identify sex differences that somehow exonerates him?

Labour could put this issue to bed today and get on with other policies.

I don't disagree that the Tories have sleep walked into this. Most of the English speaking world has. It's now spreading to France.

In the assessment of least worst option, the Tories allow free vote on Self ID. In Scotland, Anas Sarwar whipped Labour MSPs to vote for Self ID. Having previously whipped them to vote for Hate Crime legislation that excludes sex as a hateable characteristic.

"You know, NHS" is my shorthand for absolutely reasons to vote Labour.

This is how I see it. As a four decades long Tory voter, and desperate to kick this lot out.

The Conservative Party fails on all counts. It used to be relied on for three things.

Law and order, lower taxes, free speech.

Hell, it even used to conserve things (clue CONSERVEative party), used to care about the countryside, national culture. Not all about profits.

Now it purely latches onto policies and weaponises them for electoral gain. The biggest example currently is the small boats crisis. The whole system is gamed not to work to stoke up such resentment while the Tories can create murky grey sky on the narrative from Labour.

Meaning the Conservatives can fail (deliberately) with a flagship policy and still generate more voters via the culture war.

The level of evil in this goes beyond any previous politics I've seen in this country.

Even Mumsnetters favourite angst ridden topic, gender, self ID etc, the Tories have done nothing to genuinely stop institutional capture.
Indeed, I'd contend they're captured too, it's just that the trans child has greater reverence and currency on the left.

Who'll have been at the wheel for fourteen years by the time of the GE while....

Stonewall have inveigled into education, prisons, FO, MoD etc?

Arts Council etc have put Britain down to our faces, at taxpayer's behest?

Gender ideology, and CRT tropes have invaded schools?

Who couldn't say what a woman was even a year ago? Clue, two former Tory PMs (Truss, bless her heart, at least knows one thing), and soon to be PM (who amazingly now, knows the definition).

Who didn't take any action on grooming scandals, the Batley School teacher, the UK wide banning of Wings Of Heaven film, the recent spat on smudged Koran?

Who put dedicated a TRA-adjacent

in as Education Secretary?

Who has ruled as school safeguarding has become a pressing issue, presided over ghost generation of kids post-pandemic?

Etc etc.

Tbh I think we need to stop being so pressurised into accepting American liberal ideologies which is where all this recent trans wave came from. Where some people are now wanting to be called an “it”.

A lot of trans will throw up arms at this however - I personally think they ought to keep the mental health long term evaluations in place, rather than gung ho self ID. For the simple reason that changing your identity/body in so radical a way is an enormous decision and can’t be gone back upon. There are very many people; vulnerable teens/those with serious mental health concerns who are going to be missed without rigorous evaluation. They aren’t truly trans just ill. And they shouldn’t be placed into a position of life altering experiences and potential trauma to allow a small number of genuine trans to have an easier time. Nobody has an easy time finding their identity in life let’s face it. Taking away mental health screening safeguards and therapeutic support for trans people is a bad thing.

That’s before you get into women’s rights.

But ultimately, climate change has the potential to completely destroy everything, for everyone, irrevocably. Like end of days potential. So I think it has to take centre stage.

Notably, I notice there doesn’t seem to be as much opposition towards trans men vs trans women.

This issue says a lot about politicians. If they think transwomen are women they are either stupid because they really believe it or hypocrites and cowards because they don't believe it but pretend they do. If they can be stupid or lie about such a fundamental thing, what can't they be stupid or lie about?

Should read
I already take ACTION against this and would continue to do so

Yes RealityFan, I would take my share of the blame. But I already take against this and would continue to do so. I believe the conversation will continue and that sanity will prevail. But if it didn't I would have made my decision based on my judgement across a massive range of life impacting issues and would definitely put my hand up to it and stand by it.

By the way, it's easy to say, 'You know, NHS' but really free medical care is something we take for granted at our peril and I read Dr Rachel Clarke's comments with horror.

They just use issues like this for their culture war and don’t actually care about women.

That. It sickens me that they'll be gaining votes based on yet another lie. They don't give a damn aboutt women. They just want the GC vote.

It beggars belief that so many people on this thread can't see that.

More innovations from the last Labour government

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

Can I please urge all those who are thinking of voting Conservative or not voting at all on this single issue to think again. Please ask yourself how your life and that of your family has improved during the last 12 years due to policies and actions of this government? I can't think of a single one.

Labour have their faults, but when I think of what Labour did during their last tenure it makes me so sad to think of how those gains are being squandered. Labour gave us
the minimum wage, Sure Start, smaller class sizes, huge investment in schools, the shortest hospital waiting lists for 40 years plus 11 years of uninterrupted economic growth.

Taking your point, if Starmer intimated Self ID ahead of 2024, you voted him in because "you know, NHS", and lo, Self ID came to pass, would you take some of the blame for the policy happening?

Because Leave voters certainly have taken flak from Remainers for their X in 2016.

Spoiling your vote has no productive outcome. Nobody counts the spoiled votes and thinks ohhh, they don't like us, we'd best change our ways then.

One moment of 'YAY, that showed them.' and then you are controlled by a party you can't support for five years. Isn't it much better to pick the party that most closely reflects your views then pester your MP and campaign widely for change during that five years? A lot can change in that next 5 years but if we have another Tory government we will surely see a continuation of this situation where the rich get richer, the rest get shafted and, because we'd have voted for more of the same, all the issues which are currently pulling this country down from the NHS to climate change to potholes will just continue to deteriorate.

If you don't vote you are absenting yourself from steering the future for yourself and your children.

Asserting that men can be women (that biological sex is somehow a choice) means women as a sex class ceases to exist.

I am a woman. It’s important that my biological sex is recognised not least of all because government funding matters for healthcare and as a woman I have needed maternity services, cervical screening etc. There is no sexism or discrimination against women if you can’t define biological sex.

I have only ever voted Labour but don’t expect me to vote for a Party which wants to destroy the concept of biological sex: the political, medical, legal and social implications are too serious for women.

And stop waving the environmental flag at me and telling me I should care more about the environment than women’s rights. No. I refuse that choice. I won’t be made to feel guilty about a world that men have screwed up. I won’t vote for my own invisibility.

So I agree that the Tories are crap. I support a more left wing agenda but I won’t put women second which the Labour Party wants to do. The bullying and harassment of Rosie Duffield shows me what Keir Starmer thinks. I won’t vote for that. He’s starting to realise that women (and a lot of men) think he’s wrong on this. PUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLL.