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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help me pen a letter to school regarding my daughter TW/

31 replies

GCRules · 02/04/2023 11:07

TW/ CSA

My daughter is 14.

She is on the SEN register at school for several reasons. She has massive food issues. She has anxiety. Depression. She goes through phases of school refusal.

She has had over a year of school counselling.
She's on the waiting list for 2 outside agency therapies.

She goes to art therapy for children on the autism pathway.

She has a CAHMS referral ongoing for food issues and autism/ADHD assessment referal.

She disclosed to the school last year that she experienced CSA in primary school. We've been through hell the last year.

She was very pink princess in childhood. From Highschool onwards she became a tomboy.

I believe this is a direct result of the CSA. She rebelled against her body and feminity because of what happened to her.

She is still waiting for CSA therapy, though I don't think she is ready to do it anyways.

So she is very androgynous in her dressing and she is attracted to both boys and girls.

In year 8 she had a non binary teacher. This influenced her greatly and she began talking about being NB.

When she started year 9 it ebbed off (new teachers, less influence) however she then made a new friend in year 10, a boy. However it turn out this is a trans boy, bio female.

The NB stuff starts up again

Months ago her teacher told me that she had been using a different name with her friends.

I'm planning on taking to DD this week, whilst she's at home on Easter holidays.

She knows I am GC and refuses conversations with me. But I need to air my concerns.

I also want to take it up with the school.

I want to write a letter outlining the reasons I do not want them to engage in DD being NB and to only use her birth name and female pronouns.

I believe this reaction to her body, growing into a young woman, is a direct link to her trauma, her questioning sexuality and her (undiagnosed) Autism.

I don't know where to start.

OP posts:
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TrenchVagina · 02/04/2023 18:55

There was an article or something on Twitter really about a mother who had no social transition written into her daughter's ECHP. You don't need an ASD diagnosis for an ECHP, I wonder if that's a process you could start now.

Laladybird · 02/04/2023 18:43

Send your letter via the complaints process. Copy in your husband.

Sorry about your dd. Autistic young people are so at risk from this madness.

Pps are fairly measured in their suggested responses. I would be telling school that my letter puts on record that they are liable for any adverse consequences for DD in their eagerness to 'affirm'. Obviously you would never be able to sue them and you just want to avoid her transing full stop. But they won't like the the threat of adverse publicity, particularly now it is in public consciousness.

Get a meeting with the HT and bring a supporter along. Take notes and email your version of the meeting back to HT afterwards. (You probably know all that already if you have ASN child.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 02/04/2023 18:02

To Headteacher's name
cc the chair of the board of governors

We are aware that X is experiencing anxiety and discomfort, and we are working with X at home with this, as well as x being on the waiting lists for specialist counselling. It is not difficult to empathise with children who have experienced sexual abuse feeling strong, complex and negative emotions in relation to their sexed body. Whilst it is of course devastating to see our child in pain there is no silver bullet or quick fix to this pain and far from helping we believe there is good evidence to support a concern that a 'social transition' to a boy's name and male pronouns is not a neutral or trivial thing but rather an active intervention with significant long term effects and would likely do more harm than good in X's case. You will I hope be able to understand that we are extremely protective of X both in terms of her privacy and that no clumsy and ideologically driven amateur interventions put her at risk of further psychological harm.

In short when an abused child tells you there is something terribly wrong with them it is in our opinion simply not true that the kindest and best thing to say is "you're right". We understand the schools stance on using preferred names and pronouns, however it is clear to us that it is absolutely not appropriate in this case. We are convinced that watchful waiting is the best approach whilst x remains on the waiting list for a qualified counsellor who can help her unpick the complex fallout of experiencing CSA.

The line we are taking at home is that being a girl is not a test you can pass or fail, her feelings are her own and that a girls like boys are 'allowed' to feel anything and everything they feel regardless of the sex of their body. Boys can cuddle babies and like art, girls can feel angry furious messy emotions and want to smash things and kill people (though they can't always act on these emotions or do these things of course) and we would very much like the school to support us in this

Many thanks for your time and attention to this matter
sincerely……..

Happyher · 02/04/2023 17:59

I do a table at antiques and collectors fairs and we always have a 50p rummage box. It attracts people to look at other stuff and i make money from stuff that’s just rubbish to me… but someone else’s treasure. Kids love it

twelly · 02/04/2023 17:49

I think this issue is not such a hot potato being clear and to the point is the best approach. I would not write a long letter - just state what you want to happen and I would cite the recent report which has highlighted the issues.

In my personal view the fact act there are so many teachers who identify is a concern as this become the norm - children are impressionable and therefore they tend to follow. I am aware that appointment of staff has to be non-discriminatory, your choice of school can be for whatever reason. I understand that your daughter has lots of support at the school so a simple letter stating clearly you concerns which then means the school has to respond would be best

SnailKite · 02/04/2023 17:45

AlbertaWildRose · 02/04/2023 15:40

How in the world is one meant to pronounce 'Mx'?

Mux, I think. To be honest, I think they mostly automatically called her Miss, anyway.

rogdmum · 02/04/2023 17:41

I would point the school in the direction of the Interim Cass Report but also the NHSE draft guidance where it is proposed to consider social transition as a treatment which should only be supported for the under 18s under certain strict criteria including a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and under clinical supervision. (Page 15 here: https://www.engage.england.nhs.uk/specialised-commissioning/gender-dysphoria-services/user_uploads/b1937-ii-specialist-service-for-children-and-young-people-with-gender-dysphoria-1.pdf)

Name/pronoun changes are part of a social transition. Doesn’t the school really want to risk potentially going against advice from the NHS? Surely they should hold off until the final specs are released.

(that would be my argument anyway, but know from experience if a school has decided to dig their heels in they are unlikely to change position)

https://www.engage.england.nhs.uk/specialised-commissioning/gender-dysphoria-services/user_uploads/b1937-ii-specialist-service-for-children-and-young-people-with-gender-dysphoria-1.pdf

GCRules · 02/04/2023 17:34

Luredbyapomegranate · 02/04/2023 15:42

I’d say I’m gender critical myself OP, however I think if you continue to be this inflexible you are in danger of damaging your child further.

Your thoughts are not her thoughts. She is entitled to explore how she identifies whether you like it or not. You are entitled to appose that, but if you do, you risk loosing her. And she really doesn’t need to loose you.

The PPs suggestion is sensible. I would urge you to reconsider your approach.

Don't be ridiculous. You know nothing about my child apart from a few sentences written here in a vast novel of her life and my time with her.

She is being influenced and I will not allow it.

OP posts:
Luredbyapomegranate · 02/04/2023 15:42

GCRules · 02/04/2023 11:43

Sorry I appreciate the time you've taken to write this but I don't agree with your first sentence. I don't lieve in gender identity. There's nothing to explore. She's a young woman. Nothing changes that, make up, no make up. Long hair, short. Skirt or trousers. Non of that has any bearing on the fact she is a girl.

She can explore her aesthetic, her look but she's still a girl.

I’d say I’m gender critical myself OP, however I think if you continue to be this inflexible you are in danger of damaging your child further.

Your thoughts are not her thoughts. She is entitled to explore how she identifies whether you like it or not. You are entitled to appose that, but if you do, you risk loosing her. And she really doesn’t need to loose you.

The PPs suggestion is sensible. I would urge you to reconsider your approach.

AlbertaWildRose · 02/04/2023 15:40

SnailKite · 02/04/2023 12:23

Presumably the children know that the teacher is non-binary because they (the students) have been told to use Mx and a singular ‘they’ when referring to this teacher.

That was certainly the case for ‘Mx Drama Teacher’ at our school.

How in the world is one meant to pronounce 'Mx'?

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2023 15:32

PinkyU · 02/04/2023 14:04

You could actually just have left it with your first reply to me, it was a bit shortsighted but fair enough.

This ^ is the reason the GC movement stagnates. Even when someone from the other side is reaching out and seeing your perspective, actually supporting your perspective, you just can’t help yourself from from posting on the top of it.

Yeah you’re dealing with a lot, so are most people, myself included yet I took the emotional energy to empathise with you and offer help and your response is to tell me to go elsewhere, lovely(!).

However, because I’m not a cunt, I’ll point out that by simply removing one word (gender), you’ve got a well reasoned and to the point statement to send to the school (which they’d struggle to argue with).

(though I can’t help but cynically think you’d rather disregard good help for your own prejudice)

You just couldn’t help yourself could you…

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2023 15:29

GCRules · 02/04/2023 12:30

I can't remove her. She has a lot of support there. The SEN team are amazing. Her friends are all there. Her counsellor. All the other schools in the area are really crap. It's the best school in the area.

I think all schools are woke like this now. If I wasn't GC and aware I wouldn't have asked the questions that got me these answers about the school.

I'm sure most parents, her and elsewhere are blissfully unaware this is happening in their school.

I don't think it's just an issue here, but nationally.

I'm sure if I went to the other schools in the area and asked their Gender Policies they would be the same, support the kid, respect pronouns, support T satff for inclusivity

I feel like come May things are going to be different in schools anyways so th poster that said ride it out till May is probably right.

I'll probably have more governmental back up then.

Would you still think it was the ‘best school in the area’ if she ended up wearing breast binders, planning a mastectomy and called herself Bill because of the undue influence of her teachers?

Faffertea · 02/04/2023 15:21

Just to add to my previous post that I am sorry both you and dd are dealing with so much. DS (10) is currently being assessed for autism and that alone is difficult trying to understand the world as he sees it and trying to learn and understand how to parent him without the additional things you are also dealing with.

I hope the school are supportive and that you and your dd get the support and help you need for her to recover and flourish.

Faffertea · 02/04/2023 15:18

I would definitely contact safe schools alliance for advice so that I had a plan of action after Easter.

Is there a reason you want to write rather than meet with the school (and of course them follow up what has been agreed by email)? Is there someone within SEND team you find most helpful or approachable?

If you prefer to write I would put something like…

Dear Teacher/Head

As you know DD has had some traumatic experiences over the last X years and continues to struggle with her mental health as well as possibly (probably) being neurodiverse. I understand from my previous conversations with you/her teacher that she is asking her friends to call her by a different name. She has also intermittently expressed thoughts relating to being transgender. DD is in a very vulnerable state and as her parent(s) I/we are keen to ensure she receives appropriate support and we appreciate the schools efforts in this so far.

To be clear though I/we wish to state formally that while being called a nickname by friends is absolutely fine should DD express to staff a wish to be known or recorded by a different name for school administrative purposes or by different pronouns I/we would like to be promptly informed of this so that meeting can be held with me/us, DD and school staff to address this.

I/we are aware from recent reports that some schools and teaching staff have been incorrectly advised that discussing a child’s wish to be known by a different name formally or by different pronouns than those correct for their sex should not be done. This goes against both guidance to schools from X and breaches basic principles of safeguarding children which all school staff will be cognisant of. As such we expect school staff to be open and honest with us as DD’s parent(s) if this should happen including if this is expressed during her counselling sessions.

I/we know that you also have DD’s well-being in mind which is why I/we appreciate your help in this.

Regards/yours sincerely wtc

GCRules

If you wanted to have a meeting with school I would offer that at the end of the email too

Foreversearch · 02/04/2023 14:31

@GCRules I would enclose a copy of the Interim Cass Review https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Highlight that affirmation is not a neutral act. Also highlight the diagram on page 57 showing the different outcomes. https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf Emphasise conditions such as autism/ADHD can complicate children’s thought processes when going through puberty. This is compounded by the fact she has not fully processed the CSA

At present she is exploring her options and trying different paths on her way to finding her true self. Affirmation at this stage for your DD could box her in rather than giving her the freedom to explore.

Interim report – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Cherrybl0ssm · 02/04/2023 14:16

There was a post on Mumsnet a month or so back. A mother had it written into her daughters ECHP that no one could discuss or reference to transgender issues.
Maybe it’s worth looking at ?

PinkyU · 02/04/2023 14:06

PinkyU · 02/04/2023 14:04

You could actually just have left it with your first reply to me, it was a bit shortsighted but fair enough.

This ^ is the reason the GC movement stagnates. Even when someone from the other side is reaching out and seeing your perspective, actually supporting your perspective, you just can’t help yourself from from posting on the top of it.

Yeah you’re dealing with a lot, so are most people, myself included yet I took the emotional energy to empathise with you and offer help and your response is to tell me to go elsewhere, lovely(!).

However, because I’m not a cunt, I’ll point out that by simply removing one word (gender), you’ve got a well reasoned and to the point statement to send to the school (which they’d struggle to argue with).

(though I can’t help but cynically think you’d rather disregard good help for your own prejudice)

*pissing on the top of it

PinkyU · 02/04/2023 14:04

GCRules · 02/04/2023 11:54

Sorry I don't want this thread to become an argument on pronouns and gender identity.

I was asking for help penning my own beliefs. If you don't share these beliefs please take that to another thread as I'm dealing with enough here already.

You could actually just have left it with your first reply to me, it was a bit shortsighted but fair enough.

This ^ is the reason the GC movement stagnates. Even when someone from the other side is reaching out and seeing your perspective, actually supporting your perspective, you just can’t help yourself from from posting on the top of it.

Yeah you’re dealing with a lot, so are most people, myself included yet I took the emotional energy to empathise with you and offer help and your response is to tell me to go elsewhere, lovely(!).

However, because I’m not a cunt, I’ll point out that by simply removing one word (gender), you’ve got a well reasoned and to the point statement to send to the school (which they’d struggle to argue with).

(though I can’t help but cynically think you’d rather disregard good help for your own prejudice)

Justme56 · 02/04/2023 13:27

On the Gov.uk site under parents rights and responsibilities it states that parents are responsible for naming a child and agreeing any change of name. It may be some use. However I would also include some of what you wrote in your initial post about the issues your daughter is having plus as the CASS review stated it is not a neutral act. Also contact Safe Schools Alliance about this (probably first) I had to contact them once and they got back to me quickly. Good luck.

GCRules · 02/04/2023 12:30

I can't remove her. She has a lot of support there. The SEN team are amazing. Her friends are all there. Her counsellor. All the other schools in the area are really crap. It's the best school in the area.

I think all schools are woke like this now. If I wasn't GC and aware I wouldn't have asked the questions that got me these answers about the school.

I'm sure most parents, her and elsewhere are blissfully unaware this is happening in their school.

I don't think it's just an issue here, but nationally.

I'm sure if I went to the other schools in the area and asked their Gender Policies they would be the same, support the kid, respect pronouns, support T satff for inclusivity

I feel like come May things are going to be different in schools anyways so th poster that said ride it out till May is probably right.

I'll probably have more governmental back up then.

OP posts:
GCRules · 02/04/2023 12:26

SnailKite · 02/04/2023 12:23

Presumably the children know that the teacher is non-binary because they (the students) have been told to use Mx and a singular ‘they’ when referring to this teacher.

That was certainly the case for ‘Mx Drama Teacher’ at our school.

This.

And the MTF teacher you can clearly tell it's a man. Kids aren't stupid.

OP posts:
SnailKite · 02/04/2023 12:23

Presumably the children know that the teacher is non-binary because they (the students) have been told to use Mx and a singular ‘they’ when referring to this teacher.

That was certainly the case for ‘Mx Drama Teacher’ at our school.

Mischance · 02/04/2023 12:16

It is shocking that your DD (or any other pupils) even know that a teacher is non-binary. How might that come up on a lesson? What business is it of anyone else, other than the teacher themselves?

If there are trans teachers, then that might be obvious for a number of reasons, but this teacher must have stated to the pupils their non-binary preferences.

I would get my child out of this place if I were you.

olympicsrock · 02/04/2023 12:08

PinkyU’s letter is a really good one. The first sentence doesn’t suggest you believe in anything. It just says you are actively aware of the situation .

Your daughter’s situation is really tough but I wonder whether your strong beliefs are part of the reason whe is doing this. Teenage rebellion / trying to be her own person?? Eating disorders are about control. Would you consider family therapy?

VallarMorghulis · 02/04/2023 12:06

Hi OP, im not great at writing letters but I'd recommend you contact ourduty.group/ for help and support