Life without GC women

"the horrific rate of suicide deaths amongst trans people"

Ahh yes, the mythical tale of the ‘trans suicides’. The one not backed up by any statistics that would actually put them at any higher rate than any other population, volume II, “horrific rate of violence against trans” which 100% will NEVER EVER be higher than violence against women (adult human female)

I read your posts before you so strategically had them removed, I have not misrepresented them at all.

You say you didn't intend to be but you were indeed callous, blithely disregarding women who for whatever reason cannot or do not want to share their single sex spaces and services with males whatever the males in question think they are. Your solution to this? Those women to be excluded or to self exclude from the very spaces and services that are designed for their use, that is callous and inhumane, interestingly something you accused us of for not putting males ahead of women and girls.

We want women, all women and girls, to be able to access their single sex spaces and services confident in the knowledge that those spaces and services will have no males in them. You don't, you care not if they are forced to exclude themselves and have nowhere they can access.

Transwomen are male, they cannot be transwomen without being male.

Or what a woman is.

I'm not sure she actually knows what a feminist is.

Isn't it quite racist to suggest that women who don't want to use mixed-sex facilities should just stay out if public spaces? A substantial proportion of those women are going to be from religious or ethnic groups which require single-sex facilities - excluding them is a form of discrimination, surely?

Was the post where @inininsomnia stated that if women were uncomfortable with sharing spaces with males they should just self exclude been deleted? The disdain for women just shone out of that one. Or the post where we were called inhumane for not centring males 😉

but to wilfully misrepresent my deleted comments is low play indeed.

I don't believe anyone has misrepresented your posts. Of course, getting all your cringe posts deleted gives you an opportunity to say that, doesn't it.

We have read the remnants of your posts that have been used in other posts. If you had no intention of being callous, then you failed. You were callous. And you seem seriously ill informed.

Utter rubbish, there was no glee whatsoever and no intention to be callous. I won't be returning to the thread because - as I explained in the a removed post - it was a mistake for me to wade into this and I don't have the spoons for it, but to wilfully misrepresent my deleted comments is low play indeed.

How callous that inininsomnia not only completely disregards but rubs their hands with glee that vulnerable women, traumatised women, women already on the edges of society should be excluded or have to self exclude from the spaces and services that were designed for their use.

No wonder all their comments have been withdrawn, they were shameful. Old school feminist? My arse.

Maybe it was someone who came to do the usual you are all [negative generalisation] on this board and then realised all they had was emotional manipulation and misrepresentation of what people who believe that sex matters some times and that laws should reflect that and ensure the female half of the human population has sexed based rights when they need them. And the right to be represented by female humans in roles set aside for them, and have female sports categories that doesn’t include male people and so on.

Maybe they took on board that the above can be achieved without hating or oppressing another group and realised they had misrepresented what women on this board support?

That is odd. Wonder what that's about.

Also may be relevant:

the survey is usually self selecting so not a balanced representation of the population as a whole

it is rarely (possibly never) balanced with the same question being asked of all the age group as a whole to get those statistics for comparison, and how common such ideation is in all of this age group regardless of identity

they are rarely (possibly never) disaggregated for other vulnerabilities associated with high risk in statistics, such as Autism, MH diagnoses, eating disorders, trauma, CSA, to be able to be better informed on possible reasons and comparisons within the data.

On those suicide statistics: The high percentages trans activists use are based on very small samples in surveys carried out by LGBTQetc. organisations and have to do with suicidal ideation and self-reported attempts to commit suicide. They do not refer to completed suicides.

What we lack is good data on completed suicides by young trans-identifying people, the kind of data which also takes into account existing comorbidities, such as various mental health conditions, and the kinds of factors which contribute towards suicide, such as discrimination against gay and Lesbian people.

The reason we need all that data is because suicide rates are (tragically) also higher among those young people who are gay or Lesbian and (equally tragically) higher among young people who suffer from anxiety, depression and various other mental disorders.

Because many of those things can be true simultaneously for someone, the question if trans-identifying young people are more likely to commit suicide can't be separated easily from the increased suicide rates for those who are gay or Lesbian i a hostile environment and for those who suffer from various mental disorders.

This is what I found about the completed suicide rate among young trans-identifying people:

A recent study of three major youth clinics concluded that suicidality of trans-identifying teens is only somewhat elevated compared to that of youth referred for mental health issues unrelated to gender identity struggles (de Graaf et al., 2020). Another study found that transgender-identifying teens have relatively similar rates of suicidality compared to teens who are gay, lesbian and bisexual (Toomey, Syvertsen, & Shramko, 2018). Depression, eating disorders, autism spectrum conditions, and other mental health conditions commonly found in transgender-identifying youth (Kaltiala-Heino, Bergman, Työläjärvi, & Frisen, 2018; Kozlowska, McClure, et al., 2021; Morandini, Kelly, de Graaf, Carmichael, & Dar-Nimrod, 2021) are all known to independently contribute to the probability of suicide (Biggs, 2022; Simon & VonKorff, 1998; Smith, Zuromski, & Dodd, 2018).
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221

Women said no.

I'm starting to think 'middle ground' is the new 'shut up and give up your rights' fig leaf.

Really exclusionary to say there is middle ground then refuse to tell us what it is.
I'll be kind, I thought there was 'middle ground' a few years ago but it would always involve making a judgement about 'how trans' a person was and that is so unpalatable let alone practically impossible. That was back when I mistakenly thought a trans person was someone who realised their sex and wanted to be the opposite sex.

Goodness me, every comment withdrawn. Why on earth would they want to do that...

Indeed.

How I would love to hold up a mirror to that comment.

Thanks. The stats have spoken. That's truly terrible. We must of course throw open all the doors to women's spaces immediately. Those stats are clearly credible and absolutely heartbreaking.

You are in the same position as GC women. You just don't know it yet.

There seems to be a misconception that gc women hate trans people for what they are, rather than simply refuse to see them for what they say they are. I personally don’t give a toss how some people I’ve never met and never will do live their lives. But I will never consent to nor attempt to do so on behalf of all other women the presence of biological males in female prisons, shelters, sports, or indeed toilets. Nor accept the weird erasure of the word “women” from official and medical communications directed at… women.

and the rates at which young women attempt to opt out of womanhood in a hyper sexualised world, or same sex attracted young women try to “fix” themselves by becoming “boys”, absolutely breaks my heart. There are so many factors at play here.

Because I'm bedbound with serious illness and have very few waking hours to engage with the world. As I've said, I shouldn't have gotten involved here. I'm angry at anyone who can sore the energy to fill the world with more intolerance.

Yet you have come here with intolerance for people who want to protect woman and girls rights and safeguards. You should be angry at yourself for that. Maybe you will be one day.

I'm angry at anyone who can sore the energy to fill the world with more intolerance.

me too. It’s why I’m resisting the gender ideology that demand women submit or be punished. That’s not what you meant though is it? You think beating threatening and bullying women who refuse to capitulate is tolerance?