Keir Starmer - Trans Rights Can't Override Women's Rights

Need that’s brilliant, really good you are standing. Your experience of what people say doesn’t surprise me at all really.

Feels very close to what I would have guessed

I am standing as a local council candidate. A complete turn up as until a few years back I was completely apolitical, but this issue has got to me and I felt that if ordinary centrist people don’t engage in politics we get the politicians we ‘deserve’.

Keir is beholden to his left wing as Nicola was to the Scottish Greens. He is a presentable face of left of centre politics. He almost certainly knows what a woman is. He also knows that his inability to be honest will cost him votes. Unfortunately for him local Labour parties across the country will be populated by activists, many of whom will tend to blame us for not voting for them, rather than consider listening to women.

I am expected to do a lot of canvassing. I don’t actually think it is a winnable ward, but it is interesting to talk to people. Most are nice, and surprisingly well informed. A few have pounced on me with a raft of questions. Only one “What is a woman”, to which I gave the right answer. When it has come up 100% of people think that this gender stuff is bollox and has gone way too far. People are aware. Men just think the sports thing is bonkers…as in “I’m a cyclist and of course I can ride faster than most women.” Many people plan to vote but don’t know who to vote for.

Lots of people dislike Boris. However many claim to be keeping an open mind to see if Rishi delivers. Labour has other problems. One small business owner said that he will vote Conservative in the general election because he cannot afford not to.

The very weird thing is that Keir has no profile. People don’t dislike him, but no one has said they like him. A few have said they don’t trust him or that they don’t know what he stands for.

Sex is binary. 99.9% does not cut it. I don’t think gender is seen as a party political issue. It is too basic. Instead there is a credibility issue. If people can’t trust Keir on this what can we trust him on.

Someone on twitter nailed this: "Keir Starmer says 99.9% of women don't have penises. He's read the census data: 0.1% of male-sexed people identify as transwomen. That means 48,000 people with penises whom Keir thinks have the right to be in women's sport, loos and changing rooms. Labour's gaslighting us."

https://twitter.com/women_outspoken/status/1642437856416210946

I cannot for the life of my understand why people don't get that Labour loath us (upity women with opinions).

You’re only pretending to listen to us now because it’s in your political interests; we know you and/or the Labour Party have not had a true change of heart on this. Your comments are as patronising as fuck and we see you.

Absolutely.

Let's also not forget all the Labour MPs who share his view:
https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313

In Scotland, Sturgeon railroaded the Self ID bill thru, and it (and she) was tested to destruction within days by a male double rapist

We won't really know how widespread the concern is around the self ID issue until nearer the GE. KJK opposing KS will certainly make it hard to ignore.

The reason Scotland imploded so hard on this was the rapist brought home the reality of self ID in visual imagery. Very powerful and uncomfortable to see.

Yet there he is in another article saying "99.9pct of women don't have a penis". FFS, Keir, every time you open your mouth you put a foot in it.

The Q is, does Mumsnet really represent the genuine temperature of British women? Or are members here confusing what could be a self-selecting echo chamber for millions of women who are technically GC, but not that troubled on all this?

In Scotland, Sturgeon railroaded the Self ID bill thru, and it (and she) was tested to destruction within days by a male double rapist.

The same stress test is unlikely to come Starmer's way before the GE.

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I am

Me too. I’m telling my DH what I’m gonna say to any Labour canvassers at my door. Fuck off no woman has a penis. Get away liars.

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I am.

If Starmer had really had an epiphany on this and truly recognised that Labour has alienated women voters, if he actually understood that Labour’s stance was wrong, then he’d be supporting Rosie Duffield to the hilt and dealing properly with the likes of LRM and his fellow “progressive and liberal” bullies. He’d also be making it clear that a woman is an adult human female, no exceptions.

But he isn’t. He’s hoping that a few carefully crafted statements will appease the majority of those who have an issue with Labour’s stance and the ones who aren’t appeased will be small enough in number not to worry about.

We see you, Keir. We see your weasel words and your fence sitting. We hear the phrase “toxic debate” which is to absolutely ignore that toxicity only really going one way: towards the women who stood up for their rights, and instead of championing us you came out with the political equivalent of “You’re all as bad as each other”. We know you think 48,000 men in women-only spaces is acceptable and that TWAW.

You’re only pretending to listen to us now because it’s in your political interests; we know you and/or the Labour Party have not had a true change of heart on this. Your comments are as patronising as fuck and we see you.

Also by this point it’s not just men who say they’re women who are making use of female spaces it’ll be all the non-binary men who “feel more comfortable” in with the ladies.

Backpedal.

But while there seems to be outrage I reckon this statement is as near as Kier Starmer will ever get to saying self ID is not something that the Labour Party are going to pursue. That policy is over.

That's because it's a huge vote loser. The number of votes he needs to get to win has to come from majority opinion. It won't come from a very small and vocal set of transgender activists.

Strikes me that 0.1% is a low estimate anyway. The gender identity question in the census wasn’t mandatory was it?

No, it's not a u-turn. That telegraph interview linked upthread shows he's been saying this for at least 4 months.

It was bollocks then, and it's still bollocks now.

Anyway, Labour finally definitely lost my vote when my Labour MP sent me a load of waffle about "most marginalised" when I wrote to.him about section 35

This was the part that boiled my blood last night too.

Feels an awful lot like he's laying the ground to start characterising KJK's campaign as "creating a toxic divide". I predict he will repeat this phrase until it's fully lodged in the nation's brains.

His saying that 99.9% are women by biology means that the remainder he is also calling “women” are actually men.

No U turn.

He must bathe in Windex as we can still see right through him (MAFS)

Oh fuck off it's not a start, he's just fumbling around trying to phrase his fucking idiotic beliefs differently so when they get in and he is still fucking women over he can say that he obviously meant to fuck us over all along as he was still saying that sone women do have penises and we just misheard/misunderstood.

Women (no penises, XX chromosomes)
Men (Penises, XY chromosomes and Moobs (that's for you Sam!))

48k is irrelevant really as it doesn't include the men who know they're men who take advantage of any self ID laws that give them a free pass to enter female spaces.

The number of 'women with a penis' is irrelevant really.

We had societal agreement that there were some public spaces that should be sex segregated but now we effectively have self ID which means there are millions of people with penises who can simply claim to be women.

Organisations are too afraid to challenge anyone they don't believe, what are the criteria for a credible claim anyway, so all single sex spaces are now mixed sex spaces.

We must repeal the GRA for women to have guaranteed single sex spaces.

Not good enough.

I hope now journalists/news presenters will drill down on the detail of his “99.9%” statement.

Let’s see what it really means.

For me I won’t vote Labour until he completely condemns the attacks on Rosie Duffield, meets with her and actual women’s groups, LGB Alliance etc and then states explicitly what Labour is going to do with single sex spaces. Who is allowed to use them and who is t.

Unless that happens it will remain a “no” from me.

I’m assuming that if he said being a Woman is 100% a matter of biology he would find he is no longer leader of the Labour Party as the pro trans rights element within the Labour part would move to get rid of him.

Zero sum game.

He's managing this with his policy on Brexit (acknowledge the vote, acknowledge we're not returning, make the best of it).
He pisses off the Remain crowd in Labour, but forges an honourable compromise.

He's not managing this (yet) with sex v gender.
And I don't think he can.

A look at twitter shoes that as expected he’s pissed off both sides. The TRA are screaming betrayal & that he’s pandering to the right wing, GC women are pointing out that no women have penises and hes clearly still saying TWAW

them fences have big splinters….

i hear what he says as ‘some transwomen are women, and I know some women don’t like that but I am just asking them to be kind, but I sort of support in some cases that they shouldn’t need to ‘be kind’ but I don’t want to discuss the exact boundaries’
I think this is it really. He's still trying to find the middle ground. This issue isn't going away Keir.

Still wrong, Kier

Try again