Keir Starmer - Trans Rights Can't Override Women's Rights

I am pleased to see Labour slowly changing on this issue. After watching this whole situation develop during a decade of Conservative government (even as it's been pulled more rightwards by Brexit), I have zero belief that the right is any more trustworthy than Corbyn's version of Labour when it comes to protecting women's rights.

Starmer taking a sensible position on this is as credible as any other politician. That will upset anyone hoping to make hay on the trans issue for the right, I suspect.

the more I find out the more I realise there is virtually no common ground between women and trans women and very few areas where compromise can appease both sides.

The issue from my perspective is that what is in place is already a compromise for women.

The GRA already supports the premise that you can legally change sex, thus conflating sex and gender.

In addition you cannot ask if someone has a GRC thus forcing a presumption that people have one and are this the sex they claim to be.

Whilst the EA does make a distinction between sex and gender-reassignment, the onus is on service providers demonstrating a need for single sex spaces rather than this being the norm and many choose not to do so (some because they are captured and other because they can't be arsed).

Throw in stonewall lobbying gender identity rather than reassignment as a protected characteristic and what we have is an unholy mess where the current legislation gives more weight to the rights of trans women than women (even if that wasn't the intention).

Therefore the idea that women should be expected to compromise further is not something tenable to most GC supporters. Rather the whole shebang needs a revision that clarifies sex and gender as distinct, with sex being immutable.

They're very different in Hertfordshire!

I think journalists should start asking him if Stevenage Woman has a penis

Kier is a gutless coward, he cannot and will not stand up for one of his own MP's, Rosie Duffield, who has suffered abuse and bullying from members of the Labour Party and some Labour MP's - why the hell would anyone trust him to stand up for women or the Country? He folds at the first sign of it being a 'bit uncomfortable'.

As for the 'both sides' shit - what else will Kier 'both sides'? VAWG? Grooming gangs? The war in Ukraine? Democracy protests in Hong Kong? China vs Taiwan?

Pathetic.

Kow-Towing

I think what Kier really means is" trans rights don't over-ride women's rights, so don't worry about it, ladies; but we do need to be kind to those struggling with their gender identity" - meanwhile still pressing for Self ID and ko-towing to the mantra TWAW.

difficult to predict how it’s all going to pan out in the long run

I’ve always said that I have hopes that it will die down as this current generation grows older and another one comes through. Nothing makes something unfashionable faster than it being seen as something an “out of date” generation does and there was a thread recently about younger teenagers looking most disparagingly on what seems to becoming called “the they/thems”.

Couple that with the political sands shifting, greater public awareness that “trans rights” (i.e. additional rights for trans people as I’ve yet to see any evidence of a right which trans people don’t have but everyone else does) are not without cost to women, and scandals like the Tavistock, Isla Bryson, men in women’s sports etc, and I think it will dwindle down. There’ll still be TRAs for sure, but they’ll just be another angry little corner of the internet.

Completely don't trust Liebour to get into power and then allow these men in dresses and hot pink to do whatever they want.

So he doesn’t think being women is biological, just so happens most are?

the more I find out the more I realise there is virtually no common ground between women and trans women and very few areas where compromise can appease both sides.

That. Sadly. Men cannot become and live as women without any boundaries on this without fundamentally destroying the very thing they're trying to capture.

Which doesn’t bode well for his future as party leader. It’s a shame, as a human rights lawyer I thought he’d make an excellent leader. But he’s turned out to be like all bloody lawyers I’ve worked with: won’t make a decision and instead just want to give a woolly opinion in the hope that a) you’ll make the decision yourself and b) you won’t blame them for it.

Yeah you’re probably right - the more I find out the more I realise there is virtually no common ground between women and trans women and very few areas where compromise can appease both sides.

difficult to predict how it’s all going to pan out in the long run. My most optimistic hope is that gender ideology simply goes out of fashion and fizzles out and the angst ridden teens can go back to being goths and mid life crisis blokes start buying motorbikes again

Because they are desperately hoping the TRAs - both the violently hostile Twitter mob and the faction within the party - won’t notice and Starmer can get away with being all things to all people.

The TRAs already have noticed. They hate him more than we do. Anything he tweets is immediately followed by a hundred angry furries demanding he withdraws the Labour whip from Rosie Duffield. He is going to end up reviled from both sides.

Well, there's something very nasty oozing out of the dead corpse that is the Labour Party on this matter.

It's Starmer's fake sincerity that rankles, his "both sides...", his "the toxic conversation".

No, there is only one side.

No, the "other" side is the one that is toxic.

Just ask Posie, Billboard Chris, Lesbian Project, Alison Bailey etc.

I’m still not clear. Is he saying that for 0.1% of women it is not biological?
and if not biological then what makes this 0.1% women? I think he needs to make that clear

A platitude-pus?

@Needmoresleep I hope you do well in the election and I hope more people are encouraged to do what you are doing. It seems to me that if more women joined local labour parties then our voices might be heard.

Dick-brained platypus.

😂😂😂
Love that.
(I'm going with the latter.)

So are Labour floating ideas to see just what an issue this is going to be for them? We are quite a way off the election and they know this is an issue for them but are they seeing what they can get away with?

They need to understand that for many women there is no movement on this. Transwomen are not women they are trans identifying men who should not be allowed in women's spaces, sport, pros ifs, hospital wards.

So Labour, specifically Kier, go away and only come back when you re prepared to say and commit to confirming that transwomen are biological males and not women and that they should not be in women's spaces.

Whenever that penis-haver speaks, I hear Charlie Brown's teacher.

Wah wah wah wah wah.....wah wah wah. WAH! Wah wah wah, wah wah-wah waaaaaaah.

Meaningless drivel from a meaningless penis-haver.

Keir Starmer can kiss my fat hairy arse.

The only decent thing about Keir's 'new' stance is that he has, albeit tacitly, admitted that trans rights do clash with and will override women's rights if what trans people want is granted.

Trans people already have the same rights as everyone else plus an extra one.

Yes, highlight that they aren't Eunuchs 90% are intact and many are attracted to females as well as males (including themselves).