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Keir Starmer - Trans Rights Can't Override Women's Rights

316 replies

chevvyroo · 01/04/2023 18:42

In The Times

Seems like he's done a strategic U turn. I bet at least he's glad he can stop dodging the "what is a woman?" question.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6841074a-d0a9-11ed-85a8-caaa67d15364?shareToken=2360ce9b239c4fae805bc8364adaea73

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16
GailBlancheViola · 02/04/2023 20:23

I can't access the comments @Blackandwhitehorse could you give us a flavour of them, please.

SidewaysOtter · 02/04/2023 20:19

Laladybird · 02/04/2023 19:04

One in a thousand women now have penises. Amazing! Is it something in the drinking water?

Actually, that's a bit disconcerting come to think of it. Am I at risk of growing a penis?

Maybe it’s enough just to own a penis? Perhaps some of these women keep them in a box, them having arrived as a freebie or something (“Buy two sweaters, receive a free penis!)…

MarshaBradyo · 02/04/2023 20:19

I was just musing on those images and the picture editor too

Needmoresleep · 02/04/2023 20:16

I have a bit of a fangirl thing going on for the Mail picture editor.

Keir looks very confused in that photo. Like he has just seen a lady penis.

667TheNeighbourOfTheBeast · 02/04/2023 19:57

BreadInCaptivity · 01/04/2023 20:43

It's a start.

But it's not enough.

The problem is that the LP are on record committing to self id and some pretty misogynistic quotes from leading members within the PLP.

The continued treatment of Rosie is a massive red flag, including his unwillingness to be seen with her today in Kent.

He needs to learn quickly that there isn't a middle ground here. Trying to find one means alienating everyone.

Ultimately a decision needs to be made. If he wants to be asked to form the next govt he needs to read the room and realise he's going to have to piss some people off.

I couldn’t agree more. I’m a lifelong Labour supporter. I’m gutted tbh.
when I first read the 99.9% headline this morning I thought good he’s learnt from what’s happened in Scotland, I’m a bit slow on the uptake sometimes and it took me a little while to go …hang on a minute! Totally gutted about Sturgeon too coming from a Scottish family and married to a Scot, just cannot think WTF she was thinking. Just too scared to oppose it after what happened yo JK Rowling I guess.

AutumnCrow · 02/04/2023 19:50

He thinks he's so fucking clever and women are stupid. Piss off you lying arsehole

That made me laugh like a release valve, because it's simple and glorious

GailBlancheViola · 02/04/2023 19:43

Puffinpanic · 02/04/2023 19:40

He thinks he's so fucking clever and women are stupid. Piss off you lying arsehole

I absolutely love this comment!

Yep, his 'new' (re-worded old) stance is going down like a cup of cold sick.

It's insulting and patronising and blatantly obvious he does think women are stupid.

Puffinpanic · 02/04/2023 19:40

He thinks he's so fucking clever and women are stupid. Piss off you lying arsehole

I absolutely love this comment!

Puffinpanic · 02/04/2023 19:38

ResisterRex · 01/04/2023 18:50

Back to the old "I've decided 99.9% of women are biological", while actively snubbing Rosie Duffield on a visit.

Fuck off.

Thinking biology is still optional to being a woman and being too scared to go near Rosie Duffield shows that he hasn't really changed his position at all.

Signalbox · 02/04/2023 19:30

DworkinWasRight · 02/04/2023 18:14

Of course. What’s laughable is that Starmer thinks anyone will read his comment and feel reassured by it.

Show quote history

I bet he thought really really hard too about how he could phrase it to put all the silly women's minds at rest.

NotHavingIt · 02/04/2023 19:26

What is wrong with. a transwoman being a transwoman - why do they have to be 'a woman'? They're not. You have to be male to be a transwoman and many transwomen know this full well, and don't pretend otherwise.

RealityFan · 02/04/2023 19:23

Those women are really packing a lot.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/04/2023 19:19

Laladybird · 02/04/2023 19:04

One in a thousand women now have penises. Amazing! Is it something in the drinking water?

Actually, that's a bit disconcerting come to think of it. Am I at risk of growing a penis?

Ah!

But is it a risk or an opportunity?

Laladybird · 02/04/2023 19:04

One in a thousand women now have penises. Amazing! Is it something in the drinking water?

Actually, that's a bit disconcerting come to think of it. Am I at risk of growing a penis?

Unsure33 · 02/04/2023 18:49

By my calculations is saying there are about 35000 women with penises in the uk . Who would have thought it ?

Unsure33 · 02/04/2023 18:40

JoodyBlue · 01/04/2023 18:51

I'm wondering if he is pre-empting being held to account by KJK.

Of course he is and it’s extremely annoying . What a boring , politician he is . Anything for votes . I just want someone to keep playing his previous quotes to him .

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 02/04/2023 18:16

“For 99.9 per cent of women, it is completely biological . . . and of course they haven’t got a penis.”

this is going to get him no where as an answer to 'what is a woman?'

counter questions off the top of my head

who are these 0.1% of women with penises? what do I have in common with them that makes us both women? How do I recognise that these penis people are women when I come across them in single sex spaces? I mean, I'm entitled to challenge men invading the women's loos right? How do I know that these people with penises are actually laydees?

he's still going to look like a twat. he's adopted a logically unsound position and he's going to suffer (good)

and even if he said anything that made any fucking sense, I'd STILL need to see him treating Rosie Duffield with decency before Labour got even a sniff of my vote

DworkinWasRight · 02/04/2023 18:14

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/04/2023 17:56

women either do have a penis or they don’t.

99.9 % means nothing. It’s either all or none.

Of course. What’s laughable is that Starmer thinks anyone will read his comment and feel reassured by it.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/04/2023 17:56

women either do have a penis or they don’t.

99.9 % means nothing. It’s either all or none.

bluesapphire48 · 02/04/2023 17:47

"Here's a box of candy I got at the grocery store. Now will you please shut up about my affair with my secretary?"

nilsmousehammer · 02/04/2023 16:29

Just to mention in addition to the above:

all know the phrase 'more balls than Millwall'? 'Nobody likes us, we don't care' Millwall?

The activists buckled them in a few days and they cancelled the women's event that had booked with them.

nilsmousehammer · 02/04/2023 16:27

Wholly agree ^^

Add in too that agencies and services run scared of the activists who openly use tactics such as:

  • Ringing a refuge or women's service as a team, over and over and over for hours, with the aim of bombarding the service and blocking their service users. No fucks given for the impact on vulnerable females, only on smashing resistance. Any right thinking service only cares about males anyway in this viewpoint.

  • Slamming them on social media, denouncing them as transphobic and dragging their rep through the mud as hard as possible to add pressure: often involving actual threats of violence from unstable and nameless individuals, which the police are never interested in despite often breaking the law. Those running the orgs have families and children, the threats often reference the children when the tweeter is angry with someone and their name is in the public domain.

  • Contacting everyone possible to complain and to pressure for loss of funding, closure, police involvement and any other means of causing distress and increasing time wasting/inability to provide service on the grounds of transphobia.

Terrorism is really where we got to a long time ago. Under such bullying, concerted tactics many organisations learned a long time back to never risk saying no to this lobby. The behaviour has been permitted to be very, very successful. And so it has continued and escalated. Women played fair. It was their biggest mistake.

notanicepersonapparently · 02/04/2023 16:20

BreadInCaptivity · 02/04/2023 16:10

the more I find out the more I realise there is virtually no common ground between women and trans women and very few areas where compromise can appease both sides.

The issue from my perspective is that what is in place is already a compromise for women.

The GRA already supports the premise that you can legally change sex, thus conflating sex and gender.

In addition you cannot ask if someone has a GRC thus forcing a presumption that people have one and are this the sex they claim to be.

Whilst the EA does make a distinction between sex and gender-reassignment, the onus is on service providers demonstrating a need for single sex spaces rather than this being the norm and many choose not to do so (some because they are captured and other because they can't be arsed).

Throw in stonewall lobbying gender identity rather than reassignment as a protected characteristic and what we have is an unholy mess where the current legislation gives more weight to the rights of trans women than women (even if that wasn't the intention).

Therefore the idea that women should be expected to compromise further is not something tenable to most GC supporters. Rather the whole shebang needs a revision that clarifies sex and gender as distinct, with sex being immutable.

I agree. The GRA was already a compromise agreed to on the grounds that the numbers affected would be very small. And so they were until recently. What I did want to add to was your point about service providers evoking the single sex exemptions. While many are captured or forced into compliance by funding conditions, I wouldn’t be surprised if some were just worried about being sued and the costs of defending their position.