Keir Starmer - Trans Rights Can't Override Women's Rights

I disagree with the “low key” moves. The Tories are facing in the right direction but still have some way to go. Last I heard only 50% of their MPs were openly GC, some way up from 6 years ago when it was just David TC Davis MP with his head above the parapet, and some remain very TWAW.

It is step by step. Everything is so captured. Commissioning Cass was important. Appointing Kishwer Faulkner as Chair of the EHRC. Kemi as women’s minister. Rishi’s confirmation that he knows what a woman is. Gender bollox came up on us very fast, but is everywhere. So many people in so many occupations have had EDI training, effectively taught that you are risking your career if you speak up. All out war is not sensible, not given the extent of media capture. The Guardian would like nothing more than the chance to talk about “evil Tory bigots”.

Instead it will be a combination of science (Cass, research emerging from Scandinavia etc), lawsuits here but also in the US, Government pushing (the NHS is a tanker impossible to turn round quickly, as are many schools/Universities), and voters/public opinion.

Public opinion did for Sturgeon. Starmer risks the same. The vast majority of people know what a woman is. Voters also do not like liars. My canvassing - I think we are going overboard, but it has the benefit of keeping my step count up - suggests that the Bring back Boris faction within the Tories have got it completely wrong. He is not trusted, and is a reason why some traditional Tories are saying they don’t know who to vote for. But equally Starmer is not trusted. People are not specific but it is clear that there are plenty of former Labour voters, perhaps put off by Corbyn who are not yet won over by Starmer. Every time I have mentioned gender (my normal pitch is about parks and potholes) people are well informed.

thanks for that info .

It’s 48,000 TW in England and Wales as per the 2021 Census. Plus 48,000 TM.

He was very patronising, why should we poor women be worried about our rights and being obliterated from the English language ?

if I am correct he is saying there are approx 35000 women in the uk with a penis . Do you think the NHS are aware of this phenomenon ?

wonder what political demographic they are ?

Well I for one am grateful that Keir, the living embodiment of the manly man who votes to share his views meme, has decided to bring some common sense into the debate to help all us silly, ignorant mummies, no wonder he's so exasperated! I know people keep saying he's intelligent but I really don't see any evidence of that, quite the opposite.

I don't think this is a "low GC move"

Badenoch considers same-sex space legal protections for biological women

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/32012712-d2ef-11ed-b1cd-5223fe349502?shareToken=ef0ad58ac072a99f00ec4e5288f9a7b6

maltravers · Today 00:32

The tories are making low key GC moves, but not seeking to make political capital. Why?

I suspect that they are keeping their powder dry, until the election is closer. They don't want it to burn out in a few weeks now and be old hat, come next May.

The problem is not left, or right, the problem is critical theory. And those soaked in it.

Those captured by this elite lib way of thinking are everywhere in his party and in organisations, there is very little diversity of view or person in these spaces (partly because everyone else has been driven out) and a belief that it is righteous to use power to impose values on the great unwashed. Enormous snobbery and viewing those outside of the gang not only without respect but with active disdain shading to dehumanisation is also rife in this group.

Hence the EHRC just commenting on Twitter that to clarify sex in the Equalities Act would be helpful, but shouldn't be done without extreme caution and advice because it would disadvantage trans people. Which pretty much confirms that a) everyone else is being disadvantaged on the basis of sex, and b) this is ok because righteousness.

Had the UK NHS staff, Teachers and police stood up sooner we wouldn't be jn the situation we are in.

https://gript.ie/garda-commissioner-withdraws-gender-pronoun-plan-after-backlash/

Hear, Hear! I don't believe a word Starmer says - once Labour get in we'll have self-id and stupid laws letting junior rapists off custodial sentances like the crap situation in Scotland at the moment. Labour terrifies me at the moment. It really does.

What's he afraid of? His own party I think. And in all fairness, looking at his colleagues and workers - some of them in senior positions - I would say he has good reason. I think the only thing that might make him feel secure enough to take them on would be a comfortable majority.

Fwiw, Starmer is fully clued up legally. KC and all that.

He should know backwards what's in the 2004 GRA and the 2010 Equality Act...it was his party, and his PM idol that formulated them.

He wants to float his new plans, and has had all these interviews, and made announcements on Twitter etc.

He needs women's votes.

And yet he STILL doesn't flesh out exactly what he's planning.

What's he afraid of? That Sunak will steal his thunder and go on to propose a more nuanced version of his plans?

That he doesn't know what they are yet?

That he wants to only show the beef when the manifestos are released?

If he wants to promote him and his party as absolute champions of women AND trans, and control the narrative, he needs to set out in detail right now, with 12 months plus time to go, what the party proposes to do in power, and what it absolutely promises to absolutely not do.

Oh, I forgot... no-one on the doorstep is asking him about any of this, so he doesn't feel he has to. These Qs in the media are just distractions.

I concur.

No institution has, despite always claiming to, in response to destroying other peoples lives.

I just think it's the same arrogance that lost Labour the Red Wall.

Dismissing a point of view as bigoted or unimportant and totally failing to address it, totally undid them at the last election. They haven't learned their lesson.

I remember Decca Aitkenhead interviewing Angela Rayner for the Times a few weeks ago. There was a thread about the article and what struck me the most was that, when Aitkenhead asked Rayner about self ID, she seemed genuinely surprised. It was around the time when Isla Blair was grabbing the headlines and (I think) just before Sturgeon resigned, and yet, the question blindsided Rayner.

I know a lot of posters don't rate Rayner but I don't think this was just down to her, I think it showed that her advisers hadn't even thought to brief her that it was bound to come up. I think that tells you a lot about how savvy and aware Labour are (not). Starmer, I think, has possibly woken up - not out of any principle but because he wants to win - but not the party as a whole.

I would agree. It is a local issue as well.

The Council I am wanting to be elected to, and mainly because I think there is a role for good ward councillors who are responsive to local needs, has some weird pronoun and trans day of remembrance stuff. One of my favourite (and female) colleagues thought the pronoun stuff was silly. As far as I can tell it was one of two activists who pushed it through. Presumably others thought these were easy concessions to make, perhaps in return for support on major policies.

I am in touch with Conservatives for Women (brilliant group) who are keen to broaden understanding of the issue amongst Councillors. They already have about half of Tory MPs signed up.

Its proving an interesting experience. Politics, whatever the party, seems to be a boys club. Just different boys.

Very interesting.

The other day a Lib Dem canvasser knocked. I said I would t be able to vote for them as I didn’t want to provide any validation of their Westminster policies.

The (male) canvasser asked for more details so I explained the issues around Lib Dem’s, women’s rights and safety. He was completely taken aback - had never heard of the issues and was oblivious to Lib Dem’s stance.

He tried to suggest I should still support them locally as women’s rights is “a Westminster issue”. I said I would’ve be able to do that as I wasn’t comfortable supporting a party in any way that was willing to sacrifice women, and that local wins could be construed as support for their wider policies.

He promised to convey my reasoning back to HQ but I suspect I’ll be dismissed as a hysterical, right wing voter (I’m normally Labour).

The fact that this wasn’t even on their radar says enough for me.

Believing that sex is binary should not be a party political issue. Really not. It is "water is wet" science.

As I continue canvassing around the ward I am standing in, no one raises gender. There are plenty of local irritants: crime, roads that have been closed, plans for a park, potholes. People talk about not liking Boris, but Keir has not gained as a result and people are keeping an open mind on Rishi. There is surprisingly little about national policies, perhaps because Labour dont seem to be promoting attractive alternatives. Most people seem to be genuinely undecided.

When people challenge me on why I am standing as a Conservative, I explain my frustration with politics and my belief that ordinary people should get more involved. (I also say I would make a good ward Councillor as my background means I can support people when trying to get the system to work - local Council relies too heavily on people's ability to use the Internet.) I then say I could not be Labour as Keir does not know what a woman is. Everyone, but everyone, is aware, and men particularly will rant about how ridiculous it is whilst there is a clear sisterhood with older women.

(In fairness we are canvassing in areas where there is a good proportion of Conservative voters, though a fair number of younger renters, few of whom plan to vote. Oddly I am getting a higher proportion of people who say they will vote Tory from those not born in the UK. Perhaps people from more conservative cultures who are thriving here have even less sympathy for a man who does not know what a woman is.)

It won't be an election issue. It is already damaging Labour's credibility. The idea that after 13 years so many people are saying that they are undecided, but willing to consider voting Conservative, suggests that Labour have missed the catch.

I agree with this.

I think Starmer is hoping that some vague, waffly statements will reassure women that he really does have us covered.

Until I hear him say that trans identifying men will not be allowed into women's hospitals, bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons etc, I won't change my view.

I've said before, I think Starmer knows exactly what a woman is. He's not stupid. He's just been toeing the TRA line up until now because he's trying to keep all the important people happy. And it's blatantly obvious that most politicians don't consider women to be one of those important groups.

I think Starmer is desperate to outperform Corbyn and he's trying to reach all factions of the party, and bring back lost voters. He saw the GRA as a vote-winner but recent events in Scotland mean that he needs a rethink.

In fairness, I don't care if Stamer backpedals and does a U-turn. I'm very happy for a politician to admit they got it wrong, and to change their policies. Far better than doggedly sticking with something that isn't right. The problem is that I don't think Starmer is doing a complete u-turn just yet. I think he's put the reversing light on but hasn't yet decided whether to move or not.

I will watch with interest - and I agree with a PP that the Tories will capitalise on this issue on the lead up to the election. I don't Starmer will fully back down because the rest of the party - or at least the majority of it - will want to press on with the GRA. I still think Labour is probably a lost cause. As are the Lib Dems and Greens.

The tories are making low key GC moves, but not seeking to make political capital. Why? They are clearly going to blow this matter up in the lead up to the next GE - same old Labour with their cranky, ludicrous and downright dangerous student politics will be the theme. Starmer’s an idiot IMO not to clear it up now.

Re: barristers taking on whatever job they are given, regardless of their belief in the truth behind what they must prosecute or defend.

It's what they do. It's ingrained. Note that Starmer was a criminal defence barrister primarily

That is very interesting to know.

That's it, I've been trying to think what's happening and you've nailed it

All these things are apparently more important than women.

Its basically the same old tripe
After the revolution babe we will look at your issues, now off you pop and make the tea,there's a dear, oh and stuff some envelopes.

Never mind that this is imo the single most important thing in womens life.
Yet still we get shoved aside, "both sides" "take the heat out of the situation " but green issues, but children hungry, but brexshit, but but but, always a but.

No there is no time for us to dilly dally around, we are in the process of losing our words, being counted, mattering even an iota. If we dont stop this ship, we may as well all jumped overboard, nothing will ever be normal again, not in our lifetimes. And an awful lot of women will just leave public life, in fact I'll go as far as to say all women will leave public life, eventually.

He has said in passing in the past that a serving police officer was in touch and he knew months ahead about Animal rebellion attacks on dairy last year and suggested people get in some dry milk and cheese ahead of it all.

He said again that a serving police officer was in touch and named some dates this summer where something big will happen.

He would randomly laugh about trans issues over the years.

I don't know details other than he was showing people certain things and the channel has taken a recent turn.

I don't get involved with women meetings and I most certainly won't with these men.

If Keir thinks nobody is interested he is a liar or he is being manipulated by his party.