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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do transgender women/girls think it is to be a man?

154 replies

ValuePartnership · 01/04/2023 03:18

I have tried and tried in every place to find out what exactly it is (specifically) that makes women, and especially girls, feel they are "really" men? Does anyone have any idea? I am a man and would love to know what, apart from some very general conviction (asserted but never made specific); wanting to wear male clothing; wanting male "body shape"; represents becoming a "man" to trans women (or girls). Such ideas are supposed to match the reality of having a male identity. I do not have any supposed cis-gender identity, but I know what things have been central to living as a boy and then a man - and it's nothing like anything I have read about trans men. I never thought being a man depended on others seeing me as man; I never thought about my body shape; most of the clothes I wear (and have always worn) are very ordinary and could just as easily have been worn by a woman. The big big deal for me all my life (I am in my 60s) has been the way I experience sexual excitement and arousal: my body will register it (and sometimes against my wishes) through penile erection; the next has been the experience of orgasm deep in my body (prostate gland); then how vulnerable to attack (friendly or violenbt) by other males, or my own clumsiness, my testicles made and make me. Only then came comparisons - I was aware of, generally to a high degree, being taller and stronger than females. Finally, I learned that I could become a father (with a growing realistion I was expected to do so); that I had a distribution of body hair (more than some other men and less than others) that affected my appearance. It seems to me that even if you think you are a man, you have no idea what being a man is like unless you are one. Hence nobody ever says. Anyone able to help with ideas?

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nepeta · 01/04/2023 05:38

Based on what I have seen online, some wish to have the male body, but many seem to wish to escape being female.

The same question can be asked about male people who identify as women, and the answers are equally unconvincing.

But I'm not sure if I know how it feels to be a woman, and I have been one since the age of maturity. I feel like a human being with a certain age, a certain sex, a certain personality, and a specific set of other characteristics which partly make me what I am today, such as life experiences.

Some of those are linked to my sex, of course, but they don't define the entirety of me and aren't necessarily any more important than some other life experiences I have had.

There's something rigid and retrogressive about all this. Why can't we let individuals be individuals? Why is personality now forced into tiny boxes? How is this progressive at all?

ValuePartnership · 01/04/2023 04:09

ArcticSkewer · 01/04/2023 03:59

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/31/woman-trans-man-gender

This female thinks it is about rejecting womanhood.

I've interpreted it that way myself.
it's a circular argument ... what is womanhood after all ... but we seem to be in the arena of masculinity and femininity.

I am not trans but perhaps I could have been, if raised now. I don't want what femininity offers. I like the freedom and power I see in masculinity. Happily I sensibly ignored labels based on biology as sexist tropes so no need to take testosterone and cut my breasts off.

Another aspect I have heard of before is of hiding female body parts after a past with sexual abuse. You can see why you might turn on your body if you had experience of body related trauma.

That explains a great deal about the lack of specifics. And the article in the "Guardian" was indeed what prompted my posting. But given the nature of male life (physical and mental) - just like the core realities of women's bodies and experience - it's absurd to think anyone can "become" another gender; and ignoiring the realities is criminal.

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ValuePartnership · 01/04/2023 04:01

By the way, I am 100% supportive of women on Mumsnet and elsewhere who oppose the insane gender identity ideology, I support "gender critical" women and am horrified by the things done to children and young people at places like Tavistock GIDS. My question is born our of genuine frustration - how can all this happen without anyone saying what they actually think they want to become?

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ArcticSkewer · 01/04/2023 03:59

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/31/woman-trans-man-gender

This female thinks it is about rejecting womanhood.

I've interpreted it that way myself.
it's a circular argument ... what is womanhood after all ... but we seem to be in the arena of masculinity and femininity.

I am not trans but perhaps I could have been, if raised now. I don't want what femininity offers. I like the freedom and power I see in masculinity. Happily I sensibly ignored labels based on biology as sexist tropes so no need to take testosterone and cut my breasts off.

Another aspect I have heard of before is of hiding female body parts after a past with sexual abuse. You can see why you might turn on your body if you had experience of body related trauma.

I stopped trying to be a woman – and I felt resurrected, fully myself for the first time | Jackson King

My decision to come out as a trans man was lifechanging, says freelance journalist Jackson King

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/31/woman-trans-man-gender

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