Page 2 | What do Labour mean by 'Modernise the Outdated Gender Recognition Act'?

ChristinaXYZ · 2023-03-31T10:00:23+00:00

This is is after suggesting that they arre rowing back on self-id. Is 'Modernise the GRA' going to be a new phrase that basically means self-id but we don't want anyone to notice? [[https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512 https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512]] The bile they continue to allow against Rosie Duffield (see the responses to the tweet demanding she be kicked out of the party for having an opinion) makes a mockery of any claim they have to be interested in protecting women and girls.

ResisterRex · 01/04/2023 16:49

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:42

I am absolutely appauled by this - it is a metaphorical two fingers up to all Rosie Duffield has put up with.

Vote Labour/Starmer and this is what we will get

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

I don't know how much more women-with-opinions-hating Labour have to be before the tin eared start getting it.

They absolutely loath us.

You reckon they've learned from Scotland do you @Slothtoes , reckon they're not that stupid? I have no idea if they're stupid or not but they seem so full of bile about this that they don't care how much they'll shoot themselves in the feet they just really, really really want to stick one on women over this and they don't care what it costs them.

The Tories may or may not care about me, they're a mixed bunch and some are self-agrandising and some are very caring like Miriam Cates and the Baroness, but whatever their views at least they don't hate me on principle! And that I think is pretty basic requirement in any political party.

Bloody hell

Original poster

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:42

I am absolutely appauled by this - it is a metaphorical two fingers up to all Rosie Duffield has put up with.

Vote Labour/Starmer and this is what we will get

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

I don't know how much more women-with-opinions-hating Labour have to be before the tin eared start getting it.

They absolutely loath us.

You reckon they've learned from Scotland do you @Slothtoes , reckon they're not that stupid? I have no idea if they're stupid or not but they seem so full of bile about this that they don't care how much they'll shoot themselves in the feet they just really, really really want to stick one on women over this and they don't care what it costs them.

The Tories may or may not care about me, they're a mixed bunch and some are self-agrandising and some are very caring like Miriam Cates and the Baroness, but whatever their views at least they don't hate me on principle! And that I think is pretty basic requirement in any political party.

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

OP posts:

Original poster

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:30

Laladybird · 31/03/2023 20:08

@ChristinaXYZ Alba Party, SNP rivals, are also explicitly Gender Critical.

You're right, yes, thank you.

OP posts:

DdraigGoch · 01/04/2023 12:32

JacquelinePot · 31/03/2023 11:32

Ah yes, but that's not "modernising" though. GRA and hate legislation both need repealing because they are terrible, badly written laws which are impossible to enforce fairly.

They say "modernise" so that people short on time unquestioningly accept the law is old-fashioned and out of date. Which the GRA is in terms of sex role stereotyping and sexism required to up hold it. But that's not what they mean. They mean "maintaining any kind of boundaries is old hat and we'll tear those boundaries down because Momentum wants us to".

Weasel words.

Ah, but when the government says "modernise", it really means "cut" (as in "modernising maintenance" = "cutting maintenance"). So am I being overly optimistic if "modernise the GRA" meant "cut the GRA". I probably am, aren't I?

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 10:33

Also while not taking our eyes of the anti-women policies of the Tories and Labour as the two main parties let’s not take the pressure off the Lib Dems and Greens and the Nationalist parties- in 2024 they will attract (I predict) a bigger preference or tactical vote because the big Tory majority can’t last. Their misogyny matters too and needs to be moderated as best as possible.

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 10:29

OK. Obviously I could be completely wrong but given that (to English eyes at least) self ID and rapists in women’s prisons has taken down Nicola Sturgeon and public support has quickly flowed away from the SNP, I really don’t think Labour are that stupid as to try to bring in self ID to the UK any time soon. Which is only a temporary relief obviously, if I am right.

Because the risk is EVER PRESENT against women’s rights, from ALL mainstream parties. That is until policy in ALL parties is made more woman-friendly and then that is translated into actual law- and even then laws can be reversed. Misogyny is as old as time and the fight against it the same. That’s something I have reluctantly come to accept. We can never fully relax. And that’s shit but it’s the way it is.

Misogyny sewn into party politics is just a reflection of the culture that we live in. Therefore I find it irritating that on here the Tories who five minutes ago WERE actually forcing self ID on us, are somehow now being presented as the natural party of gender critical voters by some FWR posters. Absolute bollocks. Very short memories. Also, that would be ignoring all the other Tory damage done since 2010 to women, especially those on lower incomes, via Tory destruction of NHS and public services and Tory inertia or worse on a lot of women and children’s issues like child poverty and better internet protections for children.

I don’t feel any less politically homeless than I have done for the last decade or so since all major UK parties incl the Greens (honourable exception: the communists) went all TWAW.
But I will continue to vote Labour, because in judging people by what they do not what they say: the Tories have ruined the economy and devastated public services and presided over a cost of living crisis and rise in child poverty which has fucked many women’s and children’s lives over and I can not support that.

But we all have different priorities for voting and I do appreciate there have been a few real-world women-friendly initiatives in the Tories’ work even after they kicked out all the moderate Tories over Brexit. An example I am thinking of is Boris starting off a women’s health strategy which Liz didn’t have time to fuck up (.. let’s see if or how Rishi follows it up) and that has been raising attention to issues that are current in current media discussion like HRT. So I am pleased and relieved to see HRT finally getting a reduced prescription charge from today, although I think it should be free on the NHS like contraception is.

And obviously the Tories’ new found urge to stop Scotland bringing in self ID in conflict with the UK’s 2010 Equality Act is the right thing to do. But where is the specific pledge to reform the Equality Act to deal with the conflation of sex and gender?

This petition only runs until 20 April, please sign it and share it https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4758082-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-3?page=35

MarshaBradyo · 31/03/2023 22:15

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 22:02

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

They’re not going to.

Given all that has been said by Labour on this I don’t get this confidence.

nilsmousehammer · 31/03/2023 22:05

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 22:02

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

It's less a vote for than running away from. I suspect most voters are going to picking the least bloody awful of a range of political options none of which they actually want.

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 22:04

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 21:57

ResisterRex you said Anyone have a link to that? regarding:

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t get your point, sorry. Labour have said they will modernise the law around this. There isn’t anywhere else but Parliament for the law to be changed. What do you think is going to happen?

They haven't said that then. And if they win a majority then it's a done deal. They whipped to pass the GRR in Scotland. If we had a Labour government right now, it would already be done. That's before they start looking at what they can simply do because they feel like it, under powers given to the relevant Secretary of State under the GRA.

bellinisurge · 31/03/2023 22:04

Spoiling my ballot is the only option at the moment. And Labour need votes to overturn the Tory majority. It's the only way it's going to happen.

bellinisurge · 31/03/2023 22:03

"Holocaust denial " is a new flex. They are so fucking desperate it's almost comical.

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 22:02

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 21:57

ResisterRex you said Anyone have a link to that? regarding:

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t get your point, sorry. Labour have said they will modernise the law around this. There isn’t anywhere else but Parliament for the law to be changed. What do you think is going to happen?

Boiledbeetle · 31/03/2023 21:46

Well that's me convinced! Labour doesn't know it's arse from its elbow.

JanesLittleGirl · 31/03/2023 21:26

The Conservative Party is a real misnomer. They are the Pragmatic Party. They approach every issue with the question "What do we need to do to win or retain power?" I suspect that a larger proportion of their members are GC than are TRA but the bottom line is that they believe that more voters in variable constituencies are GC.

nilsmousehammer · 31/03/2023 20:10

ChristinaXYZ · 31/03/2023 19:53

My God you are naive. Labour won't open this up for debate as they believe in 'no debate' - the idea that they will debate anything openly is a real joke.

Labour will relax the rules, encroach on women's rights even further and then whip the MPs to vote for it. Just like they did in Scotland. And you can see how much they welcome debate with Starmer's lack of defence of Rosie Duffield's right to her own opinion.

The Tories have not been as tough on this as I had hoped not least as they are fighting a captured NHS, education establishment and police force and have only the captured civil service to do it with - but at least the Tories won't make the situation worse.

Labour will make it worse. 100% they will. And at least Tory MPs can speak their minds and discuss it. At least most Tory members are for single sex spaces - you have to read the comments on any Telegraph article to see that - so there is no pressure on them from the wider party for gender recognition and weakened boundries - again unlike Labour whose grass roots seem to be full of baying mobs on the subject.

If Labour get in women's rights are toast - they best we can hope for is a hung parliament so Labour have their hands tied. I say this as a former Labour voter. God help us, because Starmer won't.

Show quote history

^^

That. I'll go for the one party dragging its feet over the ones running to embrace this woman-battering, child safeguarding abandoning, 'everyone who says no is a subhuman abuser' nutjobbery.

Laladybird · 31/03/2023 20:08

@ChristinaXYZ Alba Party, SNP rivals, are also explicitly Gender Critical.

OhHolyJesus · 31/03/2023 20:07

Same has been done with surrogacy law reform.

The law is outdated
Not in-line with modern day life
It's not fit for purpose
The only way forward is for reform

Just because something is old (not yet 20 years for the GRA) doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose. What has happened in the last ten years or so means it is best repealed in my view, but if I was proposing this as an election manifesto promise at the very least I would have to explain why and not make sweeping, baseless statements.

Laladybird · 31/03/2023 20:07

Best reply tweet https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1641721200580648962?s=20

Labour actually will:

Let Duffield keep the whip despite her transphobia now sinking to outright holocaust denial
Help bigoted parents abuse their children by forcing schools to out pupils against their wishes
Break every promise on this list to win the votes of mumsnet

https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1641721200580648962?s=20

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 20:01

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

Anyone have a link to that?

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 19:55

It’s a position of the left that we can see in many western countries

UK has been peaked I think by now. There’s more to come with Cass, but JKR and then the rapist Isla’s bulging pink leggings have really been noticed. SNP is falling apart.

the political pendulum is not moving towards self ID.

Original poster

ChristinaXYZ · 31/03/2023 19:53

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 19:33

So this is the choice

The Tories- who actually in all seriousness just a couple of years ago DID propose to introduce self ID… and they told objecting women to shut up, budge up, and be kind- right up until the mainstream media (The Times) and presumably some reality-based insiders told them it was a fucking disaster.
You’d think after that they’d be going for GRA repeal but no- they think women should be grateful for crumbs that self ID didn’t happen, so they have slashed the price of GRAs and then as far as women’s concerns go- we can still shut up and budge up and be kind.

The Tories will be doing nothing for us legally and so we are stuck with the £5 GRA and an unclarified Equality Act which doesn’t clearly separate sex and gender. In the meantime the legal advances for women that have been made have come from crowd funded legal actions that we have all chipped in for on here.

OR

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament. Labour clearly don’t have a fixed position yet on this issue. At least with that option we can try to influence the outcome. There’s absolutely no fucking way that the British public will stand for self ID, now they know all about male rapists self IDing into women’s prisons.
So what might this modernisation entail then? I don’t know, but as I have always said the Tories aren’t helping women by leaving us saddled with the status quo and not touching this issue because they can see it’s electorally controversial. With a year to go until a GE now is the time to really push for what we want, actual legal change. Not to be content to have our issues kicked into the long grass.

My God you are naive. Labour won't open this up for debate as they believe in 'no debate' - the idea that they will debate anything openly is a real joke.

Labour will relax the rules, encroach on women's rights even further and then whip the MPs to vote for it. Just like they did in Scotland. And you can see how much they welcome debate with Starmer's lack of defence of Rosie Duffield's right to her own opinion.

The Tories have not been as tough on this as I had hoped not least as they are fighting a captured NHS, education establishment and police force and have only the captured civil service to do it with - but at least the Tories won't make the situation worse.

Labour will make it worse. 100% they will. And at least Tory MPs can speak their minds and discuss it. At least most Tory members are for single sex spaces - you have to read the comments on any Telegraph article to see that - so there is no pressure on them from the wider party for gender recognition and weakened boundries - again unlike Labour whose grass roots seem to be full of baying mobs on the subject.

If Labour get in women's rights are toast - they best we can hope for is a hung parliament so Labour have their hands tied. I say this as a former Labour voter. God help us, because Starmer won't.

OP posts:

EndlessTea · 31/03/2023 19:43

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t believe this for a second. Labour don’t have the stomach for all the hyperbole.

”Debating our LIVES! Whether we have the RIGHT TO EXIST! They want us to DIE!”

So many more Tories have been unequivocal compared to labour - even though May, Miller, Mordaunt and Nokes are Tories, as a whole, they are far more clear.

MarshaBradyo · 31/03/2023 19:38

Modernise usually means make easier

I don’t feel much doubt re where Labour are headed

It’s a position of the left that we can see in many western countries

NZ is a good example, Canada too

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 19:33

So this is the choice

The Tories- who actually in all seriousness just a couple of years ago DID propose to introduce self ID… and they told objecting women to shut up, budge up, and be kind- right up until the mainstream media (The Times) and presumably some reality-based insiders told them it was a fucking disaster.
You’d think after that they’d be going for GRA repeal but no- they think women should be grateful for crumbs that self ID didn’t happen, so they have slashed the price of GRAs and then as far as women’s concerns go- we can still shut up and budge up and be kind.

The Tories will be doing nothing for us legally and so we are stuck with the £5 GRA and an unclarified Equality Act which doesn’t clearly separate sex and gender. In the meantime the legal advances for women that have been made have come from crowd funded legal actions that we have all chipped in for on here.

OR

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament. Labour clearly don’t have a fixed position yet on this issue. At least with that option we can try to influence the outcome. There’s absolutely no fucking way that the British public will stand for self ID, now they know all about male rapists self IDing into women’s prisons.
So what might this modernisation entail then? I don’t know, but as I have always said the Tories aren’t helping women by leaving us saddled with the status quo and not touching this issue because they can see it’s electorally controversial. With a year to go until a GE now is the time to really push for what we want, actual legal change. Not to be content to have our issues kicked into the long grass.