Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’ - Policy Exchange Report

158 replies

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 06:10

There’s a raft of coverage in the Times and the Mail today:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

Half of schools turn to outside agencies for sex education:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8

The magnificent Rosie Duffield:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7

Rosie nails it:

”Iis universally accepted that safeguarding is fundamental to a responsible society. These principles are well-established, enshrined in law, and applicable to all organisations and functions relating to children. There is never a good reason why safeguarding should be compromised, especially within school, where children spend the majority of their time outside of the home environment.”

”The rising number of children reporting gender distress, and the treatment of those children within clinical settings, is rightly being given the attention it deserves. In an NHS-commissioned independent review, Dr Hilary Cass found the Tavistock clinic to be adopting an “unquestioning, affirmative approach” without exploring other factors causing these children’s distress.
Affirmation as a one-size-fits-all solution has been discredited.

Thankfully, the clinic is being shut down. However, Policy Exchange has revealed something even more concerning: the same approach is being facilitated in schools, which breaks every safeguarding rule in the book.”

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
AeroMintChocolate · 31/03/2023 07:25

MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/03/2023 07:20

It still hasn't occurred to this government that they've been part of the problem. There's a limit to how they can weaponise it as the absolute carnage is revealed in some schools.
And yes - case by case basis is get out clause. I understand why it's there as this has gone so far in some schools and for some poor mentally unwell children but schools need some robust advice that focuses on their key roles and puts the responsibilities for this squarely in the hands of parents, medics and psychologists. Not untrained teachers.

I understand a psychologist can't practice unless they affirm.

After GIDS, watching Prince Harry have the best access to psychology (which seems like a misogynistic cult to me) and the ever increasing uncured mental health numbers, I am not convinced it's always the best or only answer for all people, it just hasn't got all the answers, I don't know what does. I do think checking for basics like malnutrition in autistic children with limited diets should be considered for instance.

2fallsfromSSA · 31/03/2023 07:23

It is ridiculous that despite ALL the evidence she is still using such appeasing language. Case by case is a nonsense, schools will say that's what they are doing and the cases they have require the action they have taken.

Here is our response to that:

twitter.com/safeschools_uk/status/1641685340950872065?s=46&t=Wq3dfWqv1vG3lWpAJf89FQ

MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/03/2023 07:20

It still hasn't occurred to this government that they've been part of the problem. There's a limit to how they can weaponise it as the absolute carnage is revealed in some schools.
And yes - case by case basis is get out clause. I understand why it's there as this has gone so far in some schools and for some poor mentally unwell children but schools need some robust advice that focuses on their key roles and puts the responsibilities for this squarely in the hands of parents, medics and psychologists. Not untrained teachers.

AeroMintChocolate · 31/03/2023 07:19

rogdmum · 31/03/2023 07:13

Resister I would imagine activist schools will say they do it on a case by case basis but somehow it will turn out that in their professional opinion every child to date should have their social transition supported.

I recall Ruth Hunt and Owen Jones laughing at it all being a little admin.

Case by case will likely look like this as described by CS Lewis:-

I like bats much better than bureaucrats. I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of “Admin.” The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid “dens of crime” that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern.

borntobequiet · 31/03/2023 07:15

Government has been gearing up to weaponise this issue against Labour for some time - which is unsurprising and perfectly reasonable, if disingenuous, considering the part they’ve played in it - and is now panicking because unless something is done quickly about schools they themselves are very exposed indeed.
I’m quite enjoying the discomfiture of both sides in this case, though it doesn’t make up for the indignities and unpleasantness heaped on the poor kids who have been damaged by this pernicious ideology.

rogdmum · 31/03/2023 07:13

Resister I would imagine activist schools will say they do it on a case by case basis but somehow it will turn out that in their professional opinion every child to date should have their social transition supported.

OP posts:
SallyLockheart · 31/03/2023 06:37

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 21:56

More news

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/30/rishi-sunak-orders-independent-review-of-sex-education/

"An independent review of sex education is set to be ordered by the Prime Minister, amid growing frustration with the Education Secretary.
The Government is scrambling to respond to mounting alarm among parents over the teaching of sex and gender in schoolss_.
Rishi Sunak is now preparing to announce as soon as Friday that an independent panel of experts will lead a review of sex education lessonss_, taking over work already started by the Department for Education (DfE), The Telegraph understands."

And:

"Senior government figures are understood to be concerned about the Education Secretary's “soft” approach to transgender issues. They cited her remarks earlier this year when she suggested that 16-year-olds are old enough to decide to change their gender.
Her comments came after Mr Sunak blocked a controversial Scottish self-ID Billl_.
Downing Street is also understood to be concerned that the DfE has been overly influenced by trans activists, and fear the Education Secretary has failed to act quickly enough to recognise the political importance of addressing parents’ concerns about sex education and transgender pupils in schools.
“Downing Street officials have not been shy to express their bewilderment at DfE’s approach to these issues which has left the Government exposed on an issue it should be owning,” a Whitehall source said.
On Thursday, Mr Sunak was forced to intervene over demands for transgender guidance in schools, which has stalled under a succession of education secretaries, including Mrs Keegan, who had said it would be published early this year."

More on Keegan:

"It is understood that she will review the recommendations of the independent panel of experts on sex education."

And a statement in her name this time:

"In a statement, Mrs Keegan said: “Policy Exchange’s report is deeply concerning and further demonstrates why we are taking decisive action.
“I am urgently bringing forward fresh guidance for schools to make sure they are equipped to support children, keep them safe, and are using teaching materials that are genuinely age appropriate.
“I am clear that parents should have access to teaching materials used for relationships and sex education and that they should be involved in decisions about their children.”"

Interesting. If the government is recognising Dfe and Keegan being part of the problem- ie can’t be fully trusted to sort it out- it might add urgency to getting guidance out. As ever, though, it needs to be well thought out and robust

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 06:28

rogdmum · 31/03/2023 05:47

This Times article says there will be a consultation and that schools should act on a case by case basis:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/36190c3a-cf3d-11ed-9a78-fca06b87e87b?shareToken=d9200db9346732e018f0928e3a6133ea

So there's some movement. But it sounds panicked, and still not right. "Case by case" without proper reference to medical experts to help the vanishingly small number of children who'd actually benefit from social transitioning will not change things.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/03/2023 00:39

I've never known of any education guidance being issued without consultation before? It so often changes when practitioners get hold of it - but this is a self inflicted emergency I suppose.
Trouble is everything that's written about trans issues in schools comes from very self interested adults, enforced with the threat of tantrums if it's not immediate affirmation of children.

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 22:00

They seem to have dropped the idea that the guidance will first be issued for consultation no mention of it in the press coverage today.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 21:56

More news

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/30/rishi-sunak-orders-independent-review-of-sex-education/

"An independent review of sex education is set to be ordered by the Prime Minister, amid growing frustration with the Education Secretary.
The Government is scrambling to respond to mounting alarm among parents over the teaching of sex and gender in schoolss_.
Rishi Sunak is now preparing to announce as soon as Friday that an independent panel of experts will lead a review of sex education lessonss_, taking over work already started by the Department for Education (DfE), The Telegraph understands."

And:

"Senior government figures are understood to be concerned about the Education Secretary's “soft” approach to transgender issues. They cited her remarks earlier this year when she suggested that 16-year-olds are old enough to decide to change their gender.
Her comments came after Mr Sunak blocked a controversial Scottish self-ID Billl_.
Downing Street is also understood to be concerned that the DfE has been overly influenced by trans activists, and fear the Education Secretary has failed to act quickly enough to recognise the political importance of addressing parents’ concerns about sex education and transgender pupils in schools.
“Downing Street officials have not been shy to express their bewilderment at DfE’s approach to these issues which has left the Government exposed on an issue it should be owning,” a Whitehall source said.
On Thursday, Mr Sunak was forced to intervene over demands for transgender guidance in schools, which has stalled under a succession of education secretaries, including Mrs Keegan, who had said it would be published early this year."

More on Keegan:

"It is understood that she will review the recommendations of the independent panel of experts on sex education."

And a statement in her name this time:

"In a statement, Mrs Keegan said: “Policy Exchange’s report is deeply concerning and further demonstrates why we are taking decisive action.
“I am urgently bringing forward fresh guidance for schools to make sure they are equipped to support children, keep them safe, and are using teaching materials that are genuinely age appropriate.
“I am clear that parents should have access to teaching materials used for relationships and sex education and that they should be involved in decisions about their children.”"

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 21:20

There's a screen shot of the pronouns in school thing here:

twitter.com/anniesarboretum/status/1641510990431805460?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

ValancyRedfern · 30/03/2023 20:56

I can confirm that Sims has a box which says 'preferred pronouns (school use only)' on student records. I may be paraphrasing slightly but that is the basic statement. A box written into school management software that explicitly states its information to be kept from parents.

AeroMintChocolate · 30/03/2023 19:42

The NHS needs to rewrite the description as it's quite a widespread problem with those in the public and third sector.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/fabricated-or-induced-illness/overview/

AeroMintChocolate · 30/03/2023 19:39

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/03/2023 18:54

My fury with schools is somewhat tempered by the knowledge that Ofsted signed up to Stonewall some years ago and followed their demands to prioritise teaching about gender identity. They're now doing a hasty reverse ferret (not admitting their culpability) but they, the NAHT (head's union) and the DfE have all pushed this at schools. They threw money at Stonewall and other very dodgy groups. Schools just assumed that this is the new upside down clown world where fetishes & science denial are celebrated and vulnerable children affirmed in their fantasies. Many of them accepted it and stopped all critical thinking.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10931423/Ofsted-cites-lack-gender-identity-teaching-primaries-factor-inspection-reports.html

There will be something else again in a few years, unless they are punished individually. The lesson they need to learn this time, is that each individual will be punished. What's the point in a serious case review, it will show like others they put themselves and the institution first, I want to see each individual with FII behind bars.

We are talking fabricated induced illness here, it's a criminal offence.

It's like bankers, maternity, blood and the post office scandal, the people who harm are always protected, they never get punished for destroying lives, just sweep it under the carpet and tax us more.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/03/2023 18:54

My fury with schools is somewhat tempered by the knowledge that Ofsted signed up to Stonewall some years ago and followed their demands to prioritise teaching about gender identity. They're now doing a hasty reverse ferret (not admitting their culpability) but they, the NAHT (head's union) and the DfE have all pushed this at schools. They threw money at Stonewall and other very dodgy groups. Schools just assumed that this is the new upside down clown world where fetishes & science denial are celebrated and vulnerable children affirmed in their fantasies. Many of them accepted it and stopped all critical thinking.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10931423/Ofsted-cites-lack-gender-identity-teaching-primaries-factor-inspection-reports.html

Ofsted cites lack of gender identity teaching in primary schools

A lack of 'gender identity' teaching has been cited among the reasons for several primary schools' low grades by Ofsted inspectors in their reports.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10931423/Ofsted-cites-lack-gender-identity-teaching-primaries-factor-inspection-reports.html

Datun · 30/03/2023 18:54

cosmiccosmos · Today 18:28
"I listened on and off to LBC and was frankly quite shocked at how many were saying that schools should not tell parents."

Yes, it's frustrating, hearing all the TRA tropes coming out. But, the one massively good thing is, at least we are all now having the conversation.

No debate is well and truly over.

Datun · 30/03/2023 18:41

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 18:23

A new, related story:

EXCLUSIVE: School record-keeping system now allows teachers to add pupils' pronouns - and students can choose to identify as 'they', 'Zie', 'Sie', 'Ey' or 'E'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11920889/School-record-keeping-allows-students-identify-Zie-Sie-Ey-E.html

"England's largest school management system, ESS SIMS, covers thousands of children.
The pronouns teachers can choose from include the traditional 'he' and 'she' but pupils also have the choice to identify as 'they', 'Zie', 'Sie', 'Ey', 'Ve', 'Tey' and 'E', the Mail can reveal.
The discovery has sparked fresh fears that the controversial 'gender identity' theory feared to be endangering child welfare is now being normalised in schools.
Released in the summer of last year, guidance for ESS SIMS users says pronouns can be chosen by 'pupil/students, applicants, contacts, staff members and agents'.

Once applied to an individual on the system, their personal pronouns are then displayed in bold at the 'top of their record' for those who use the system to see.
The 'management information system' is the most widely used in UK schools and claims to be installed at '19,000 schools, with 1 million users from over 40 countries'."

Quotes from Conservatives for Women and WRN:

"Caroline Ffiske from Conservatives for Women told the Mail: 'In the wake of the Policy Exchange report some people are asking just how gender ideology has become so normalised and widespread in our schools. The fact that one of the major pupil data management systems used in our schools - SIMS - promotes gender ideology and normalises the use of made-up neo-pronouns for school children gives you an indication.'

She added: 'In the introduction to their YouTube training module, SIMs say the new pronoun option is 'based on customer demand'. Of course we know it is not. It is based on the demands of a small number of gender activists.
'Ideological demands are made - and another corporate falls into line, unable to ask itself some basic questions about science, safeguarding, free speech or to think through the harm done if you affirm the idea that children can be born in the wrong body.
'For schools, we urgently need the now long-promised new government guidance on these issues. But the private sector also needs to ask itself - will it defend science, reason, free speech - or continue to bow to harmful ideology?'
Heather Binning, of the Women's Rights Network, added: 'We have alerted MPs time and time again to the fact that schools and teachers are socially transitioning children without the knowledge or consent of parents.
'This is a serious risk to safeguarding. It usurps parental authority and responsibility.
'It is a direct breach of statutory duties as regulations require schools to register the name and sex of every child.'"

And:

"The Department for Education was contacted for comment."

Jesus. I was under the impression that the government had unequivocally said you cannot teach children things that are unevidenced.

Neo pronouns are based on an ideology that is unevidenced.

Are there really soon they don't care about that, because of fucking customer demand? If you went on customer demand, you wouldn't even have any schools.

cosmiccosmos · 30/03/2023 18:28

I listened on and off to LBC and was frankly quite shocked at how many were saying that schools should not tell parents. Sheila was very clear in her views on this however I didn't hear anyone ask what 'living as a boy/girl/woman/man means. The kiwi woman whose child was a trans man and now 21 wound have been a great candidate for this question.

Additionally there now seems to be an acceptance of 'lots of genders' and you must have a gender. Well some of us don't have a gender - I hope this is being explained to children.

IMO any school affirming this nonsense without telling parents should automatically be downgraded to special measures there is nothing complex about this, it's very straightforward and it's completely different to a child being gay.

SwordToFlamethrower · 30/03/2023 18:27

This happened to me with my daughter. I won't go into details but it has been horrific and now we are estranged

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 18:23

A new, related story:

EXCLUSIVE: School record-keeping system now allows teachers to add pupils' pronouns - and students can choose to identify as 'they', 'Zie', 'Sie', 'Ey' or 'E'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11920889/School-record-keeping-allows-students-identify-Zie-Sie-Ey-E.html

"England's largest school management system, ESS SIMS, covers thousands of children.
The pronouns teachers can choose from include the traditional 'he' and 'she' but pupils also have the choice to identify as 'they', 'Zie', 'Sie', 'Ey', 'Ve', 'Tey' and 'E', the Mail can reveal.
The discovery has sparked fresh fears that the controversial 'gender identity' theory feared to be endangering child welfare is now being normalised in schools.
Released in the summer of last year, guidance for ESS SIMS users says pronouns can be chosen by 'pupil/students, applicants, contacts, staff members and agents'.

Once applied to an individual on the system, their personal pronouns are then displayed in bold at the 'top of their record' for those who use the system to see.
The 'management information system' is the most widely used in UK schools and claims to be installed at '19,000 schools, with 1 million users from over 40 countries'."

Quotes from Conservatives for Women and WRN:

"Caroline Ffiske from Conservatives for Women told the Mail: 'In the wake of the Policy Exchange report some people are asking just how gender ideology has become so normalised and widespread in our schools. The fact that one of the major pupil data management systems used in our schools - SIMS - promotes gender ideology and normalises the use of made-up neo-pronouns for school children gives you an indication.'

She added: 'In the introduction to their YouTube training module, SIMs say the new pronoun option is 'based on customer demand'. Of course we know it is not. It is based on the demands of a small number of gender activists.
'Ideological demands are made - and another corporate falls into line, unable to ask itself some basic questions about science, safeguarding, free speech or to think through the harm done if you affirm the idea that children can be born in the wrong body.
'For schools, we urgently need the now long-promised new government guidance on these issues. But the private sector also needs to ask itself - will it defend science, reason, free speech - or continue to bow to harmful ideology?'
Heather Binning, of the Women's Rights Network, added: 'We have alerted MPs time and time again to the fact that schools and teachers are socially transitioning children without the knowledge or consent of parents.
'This is a serious risk to safeguarding. It usurps parental authority and responsibility.
'It is a direct breach of statutory duties as regulations require schools to register the name and sex of every child.'"

And:

"The Department for Education was contacted for comment."

Fluffymule · 30/03/2023 18:02

I think it's worth adding the front page of today's Daily Mail for additional context/info here too.

It's the UK's biggest paper so it's important that a headline front page like this is furthering visibility. Even without reading anything past that headline, thousands and thousands would have seen those words as they passed newspaper displays in shops and garages etc today.

Sunlight, visibility and awareness.

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’ - Policy Exchange Report
Datun · 30/03/2023 17:58

After Tania Carter spoke on LBC, there was a woman who just talked a load of bollocks. Trans children are 10 times more likely to commit suicide, etc.

And a drama group teacher who said she wouldn't tell the parents of any children who wanted to identify as the opposite sex because she thinks they need 'breathing space' in a safe environment. The utter cheek of it. Fortunately Shelagh Fogarty said that was a safeguarding risk and she wouldn't let her child anywhere near this woman.

There's this wholesale assumption that every single parent of a child who is gender confused is a raging transphobe.

Actually, they're being told that anyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.

The government must get hold of this. It's a horrible, insidious lose/lose situation. If concerned parents don't want their children going down a path that can lead to irreversible surgery, they are automatically the enemy. And adults who should know better, who should have safeguarding training which tells them this is wrong, are going along with it.

Tanya said there is online influence, and the interviewer assumed she meant social contagion. But it's not just that. It's being told that everyone is against you, including your parents. Look at that fucker Jeffrey Marsh.

It needs to be made an offence not to tell the parents.

Swipe left for the next trending thread