Julia Hartley Brewer and Kellie Jay

I suspect that what some people don't like about JHB is that she asks questions and she is quick to point out inconsistencies, untruths and misrepresentaions no matter what the discussion topic. She is good at holding all views accountable and that is what some people don't like.

People like for baddies to be baddies, even if they are being mispresented for effect; and they like the morally virtuous to remain morally virtuous, even when they are not. Certain shibboleths of feminism, of anti racism, Brexit/Remain or whatever, must not be questioned at all.

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

See, I agree with you on this. 😀

But where are these journalists and interviewers? None in sight that I know of. You have got the BBC who haven't even mentioned the horrible events in NZ. Complete radio silence unless they have today, since I didn't bother checking today. Why not? Because they are beholden to the trans lobby within their own corporation.

So until these interviewers, journalists and msm pull their heads out of their arses, we're left with centrist and the politically right media to platform KJK, Helen Joyce etc.

Apparently. And that's very sad.

I couldn't give a shiny shit what JHB thinks of me. It's more about others - who I might care about - thinking that the rest of my views align with JHB's

So all you really care about is how it might look to other people?

My feelings exactry. Well said.

I love KJK - even though I don't agree with her on everything! The irony, I know 😅 But she's marvellous, an absolute warrior woman who's incredibly brave. I feel so grateful to her for being willing to do everything that she is.

Of course, yes, it's imperative that she has a voice and speaks up about the violence in NZ. Maybe I'm just ignorant of the landscape in NZ but I was really shocked by the scale of the protest against her. Sadly, not by the violence because women are just fair game, aren't they?! 😕 It needs to be discussed publicly, and people need to realise this just isn't OK!

Also, in my defence, I didn't actually say that JHB shouldn't interview her. I did listen to the interview and I know that JHB really does get the GC perspective entirely. I also said earlier that I don't believe in silencing or deplatforming, unless it's for safety reasons.

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

It's as I said in my post above, the problem is that those who aren't really engaged won't delve into it to find out what's really going on. When it's a right wing person who maybe they don't agree with on other subjects, people will just dismiss it and won't listen. It will be ignored as some right wing rant that's targeting minorities yet again....

Lots of people - especially men - still don't appreciate how hard women have to fight for equality every day, and how differently we're still being treated. So when it's just right wing voices championing this cause, it's easy for the casual listener/reader to switch off. Whereas, if it was someone who maybe aligned with the rest of their views, someone they usually liked or respected, there's a greater chance of them actually paying attention to what's going on.

I don't know how well I'm explaining my point of view 🤦🏻‍♀️

For example, on twitter if I see a tweet from JK Rowling, I'll automatically go and see what she's got to say. That's because I know our views align on many subjects and she's someone who I greatly respect.

But let's say a tweet from Owen Jones somehow makes its way onto my newsfeed, if it's not relating to sex/gender I'm unlikely to pay it any attention because I think he's a giant bellend and he's always banging on about stuff that I don't agree with. Candace Owens would be another one - she could post something relating to US politics that I'm not aware of. I'm unlikely to pay attention to her because I don't like her either. And that means I won't learn about whatever the issue is, because my dislike for her means I scroll past.

Of course, not everyone is quite so polarising! There are plenty of people I have mixed views on, but those that I really do dislike, I'm unlikely to waste my time on. And that's what I mean about JHB - there are plenty of people who have an issue with her, so they'll scroll past if she pops up with this interview on their newsfeed.

I'll get back to you on who would be the ideal interviewer - need to think about that 😅 There is a bit of me that wonders whether a man interviewing her would mean it gets taken more seriously. Absolute bullshit that it's still like this, but so frequently we are still dismissed as hysterical women. When men talk, people take it more seriously which is why it's important to get blokes speaking up for women's rights too - and that includes publicising and condemning the violence against KJK.

This is just a different attempt to discredit and shut women up. We're all meant to ensure that everyone who believes women don't have a penis or that children should not be encouraged into drugs and surgery to fix their growing bodies all comply with all the pre approved rules.
If after this weekend's examples of extreme threats / violence against women along with the evidence of the thousands of children sacrificing their mental and physical health in favour of these toxic beliefs, your talking points are about JHB's views that you don't agree with, you're part of the problem.

I don’t consider myself on the “same side” as anyone, I just happen to agree with a specific point or view they hold, I don’t really find that uncomfortable. Someone having a point is someone having a point, I’m not signalling approval of them.

Just to add I ask because I think we are in a very precarious position

Women only want to speak, that’s it, about single sex spaces

They get punched and assaulted and are silenced

If we can’t even get coverage in the media because the left deign it not worthy we really are stuffed

No voice, hit and punched and no one hears us

I appreciate that it's just something I'm going to have to suck up.

The point I was making is that where do you draw the line in being grateful for the support. To make my point in a fairly ridiculous way - what if Hitler were alive today and championing GC views? Would we say "don't worry about the rest of his views because no one has to agree on everything?" Would you feel great about the fact that you agree on this issue but nothing else?

Obviously I'm exaggerating for effect, but that's the point I'm trying to make.

I do find some of JHB's views really offensive. I'm an autistic woman and her using autism as a slur is disgusting. As well as a number of her other views.

I'm not saying I have to agree with everyone about everything because that really would be ridiculous. But generally I don't share JHB's viewpoint on much else (if anything). And most of the people championing GC views are right wing and I'm not - so yet again, I'm aligning myself with people that have other views which are the polar opposite to mine.

I think it would feel less uncomfortable if there was a broader spectrum of people who were all saying biology matters (because of course it bloody does!) But when it's primarily coming from groups that would normally be considered as quite intolerant, it's quite hard to swallow.

And I think it matters because although the left has shown themselves to be equally as intolerant now, historically it's been the rightwing of politics that was known for intolerance and excluding minorities. So when there's primarily right wing people speaking out, GC becomes easier to view as an intolerant, right wing movement. I'm not referencing those who are engaged in the debate, but the rest of the general public who maybe only have a passing interest. Those are the people we need to reach and if they are only hearing right wing voices, they will dismiss GC views.

Do you think KJK should have a voice here generally and speak specifically about the violence in NZ

And if so who would you like to interview her?

If only JHB has why is that, why is that, where is the cross section of media on this in your view

Oh. What a helpful response.....not 🙄

I couldn't give a shiny shit what JHB thinks of me. It's more about others - who I might care about - thinking that the rest of my views align with JHB's.

I'm sorry that this rather obvious meaning went over your head.

maybe some on the far left

I find it difficult to be on the same side as her because so much else of what she believes or says, I find really problematic. Yet here we are.

I find this hard to understand. Jordan Peterson - I don't agree many things with him but I agree on some. Candace Owen - same thing. Billy fucking Bragg - I'm sure there are some things we might agree on if I could be bothered to find out. I don't agree with everyone on this board. I don't agree with everything Maya or Helen Joyce say.

Especially in this issue you're going to rub up against all sorts of people who agree with you. With Muslims, Christians and most other religious groups, the centrist, the right, the far right, maybe even far left and the free speech advocates. Bloody hell, most of the world in all its messiness. Why? Because biology matters and none of us like being manipulated, gaslit and lied to. For all sorts of different reasons.

You really need to get used to it.

A few of her views are far right, but not the majority. In fairness I didn't mean to describe her overall as far right because that's not accurate - so I apologise for that. I should have read my post back before entering - I meant to type right wing.

She's generally very comfortably to the right, but no, in general, not far right. That's my mistake.

JHB is definitely not 'far right' FGS.

The fact that we're on the same "side" when it comes to gender ideology makes me deeply uncomfortable. I don't agree with her on other issues, and I don't want to be tarred with the same brush as her.

Oh, dear. JHB will just have to get on with her dreary, drab existence knowing that you "don't want to be tarred with the same brush as her".

I listen the JHB when driving in the morning she had Sharron Davies on today - excellent program about this repugnant, evil nonsense

I think the left claims the right are noted for intolerance.

Lots of minorities on the right say that the worst treatment they ever get is from people on the left who say things that are pretty shocking.

I think this is a really interesting point, and of course you're right, at least in part.

I absolutely loathe JGB, and I'm not comfortable with being on the same side of her. It's a bit like KJK when Nazis turn up to support her at the rallies, it doesn't reflect well even though KJK clearly doesn't share their opinions on other things!

**Point of note, I'm NOT calling JHB a Nazi - just pointing out how you can be tarnished by association.

No one is ever going to agree with everything another person thinks and believes. And of course it's not necessary.

But let's say, for example, the delightful Tommy Robinson from the EDL was loudly supporting you. How would that make you feel? Just thankful for the support or slightly uncomfortable that quite an odious individual shared your views and was campaigning for your cause? For me, it's the latter.

And that's the question - at what point are you just happy that someone is supporting the cause, and at what point do you feel uncomfortable sharing views?

Obviously you can't change what someone else thinks, and none of us are the gatekeepers of GC views. I just wish there were more left-leaning individuals who were willing to speak up because at the moment, it's just being dismissed as another branch of intolerance which let's face it, the right are more commonly known for.

Re the quote on GT, what I find particularly abhorrent is that she's using autism as a slur. I find that unforgivable, if I'm honest. I don't care that she doesn't like GT but you don't use autism as a means of trying to criticise someone.

I'm even particularly a fan of GT, and I don't agree with a number of things she's said or done, but to use someone's autism as a means of trying to discredit them is pretty bloody awful.

Also backing Andrew Tate over GT is unbelievable. An alleged multiple rapist and human trafficker....let alone the rampant misogyny...? But that backs up my perception of JHB, in all honesty.

I think you're right in that it's important to have a range of views in society, even if you don't like them all. I just find many - not all - of her views particularly unpleasant, and full of vitriol. I wouldn't deplatform her because I only support that for quite extreme individuals who present the possibility of incitement etc.

She doesn't believe in climate change, thinks Enoch Powell's speech wasn't racist, is pro-Rwanda for immigration, was pro-Brexit - but also was vocal in being happy to "throw Northern Ireland under a bus" to achieve Brexit. I could go on. It's not the fact that our views are different, it's the fact that I think a lot of her beliefs come from a selfish, xenophobic place of elitist hierarchy.

She's pretty much a female Nigel Farage.

I find it difficult to be on the same side as her because so much else of what she believes or says, I find really problematic. Yet here we are.

I'm glad that KJK has come out fighting after the horrible incident in New Zealand. Strength to your elbow, Posie!

Question for the critics -

As a GC woman am I supposed to make sure every person who says something I agree with, is a person whose opinions and thoughts are all pure? And actually is there a laminate checklist we can use to do this?

Because, and I'm maybe being thick here, it seems I could be waiting for hell to freeze over before such a person comes along.

Surely agreeing with an opinion isn't the same thing as wanting that person and all they hold dear as my new BFF?

It would be interesting to know - ther's been no sight or sound for a number of years, as far as I'm aware. Maybe they have detransitioned?