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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boycott New Zealand

694 replies

Clymene · 26/03/2023 16:48

Let's hit the state sanctioned violence against women where it hurts - in their pockets.

Off the top of my head:

Wine - Oyster Bay, Villa Maria, the Ned, Wairau Cove, Brancott Eatate, Cloudy Bay
Lamb - check the label to make sure it's British
Manuka honey and ordinary honey - M&S stock quite a few.
Wool
Allbirds shoes
Canterbury clothing.

Have I missed anything?

Also write to the PM: [email protected]
Minister for trade: [email protected]

And tell them you're boycotting and why. There's no point if they don't know you're doing it!

OP posts:
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37
DialSquare · 29/03/2023 08:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Fooksticks · 29/03/2023 08:19

GrammarTeacher · 29/03/2023 07:52

KJK's team prevented women from speaking against her. Only one side is aloud to speak it seems. You continually insist you speak for all women on here. You don't. Those of us who disagree with you aren't stupid. We disagree.
No mention of the assaults on women of colour by KJK's side nor the support of Nazi.

Two things.

  1. It's allowed, not aloud.
  1. Fuck off with your 'Nazi connection'.
RosaBonheur · 29/03/2023 08:09

GrammarTeacher · 29/03/2023 07:52

KJK's team prevented women from speaking against her. Only one side is aloud to speak it seems. You continually insist you speak for all women on here. You don't. Those of us who disagree with you aren't stupid. We disagree.
No mention of the assaults on women of colour by KJK's side nor the support of Nazi.

Hi, can you provide a link to a news article reporting on assaults committed by people connected with Kellie-Jay Keen?

Because so far, in all the ridiculously biased (against Kellie-Jay Keen) reporting I've seen, the only confirmed assaults were committed against Kellie-Jay Keen herself and a 70 year old woman, both by trans activists.

There may or may not have been Nazis present, I don't know. But if there were Nazis there, it looks like the trans activists behaved worse than the Nazis, which is really not a good look, is it?

Whaeanui · 29/03/2023 08:00

KJK's team prevented women from speaking against her. Only one side is aloud to speak it seems. You continually insist you speak for all women on here. You don't. Those of us who disagree with you aren't stupid. We disagree.
No mention of the assaults on women of colour by KJK's side nor the support of Nazi.

No. she doesn’t prevent people from speaking ‘against her’. These are organised events where women are invited to speak and others listen. Running up to her to shout’ you’re not welcome ‘ or to throw something at her is not the same as waiting to speak. If you had watched any of these events in other locations you’d see people with different opinions can speak.
There was no attack by Posie or anyone associated with her on ‘women of colour’. Be careful making false accusations without evidence. Maori were beaten and assaulted by TRA’s, one has a broken foot.
The ‘Nazis’ weren’t at any of her events. They are separate to her event in Melbourne. You can see this on footage. She has repeatedly said she thinks nazi’s are abhorrent. Stop making Nazis her fault, it’s stupid.
Nobody said they speak for everyone at all so I don’t know why you’re saying that.

GrammarTeacher · 29/03/2023 07:52

KJK's team prevented women from speaking against her. Only one side is aloud to speak it seems. You continually insist you speak for all women on here. You don't. Those of us who disagree with you aren't stupid. We disagree.
No mention of the assaults on women of colour by KJK's side nor the support of Nazi.

AsMyGranWouldSay · 29/03/2023 07:27

Whaeanui · 27/03/2023 07:51

You forget that a decent proportion of us have lived in the UK and know exactly what it's like: I spent ten years there and was back last year. I doubt that many of you could say the same about New Zealand.

Telling us you're ahead of the curve over there and one day we'll wake up to what you're saying? Okay, coloniser 🙄

Maori Wahine here. I’d appreciate it if you would not call members of this feminist forum colonisers. You can imagine that throwing that around when Maori are included is pretty offensive, and I find it racist. None of the people in the UK now, are colonisers. The descendants of colonisers would be people like you. Back in NZ. That’s your history, not the people in the uk. I’ve lived in uk 20 years and NZ for much longer. I know plenty of kiwis in the UK too. We are all here for a reason. How many kiwis live overseas now? 1/5th of the population isn’t it? That’s quite a lot for a place you are describing as some safe utopia. I guess my mother imagines the racism at work, on the street? I guess all of my female friends also imagine their domestic abuse, sexual abuse and harassment too? I must of imagined my rapes, plural, in NZ too. I must of imagined all the street harassment. I must of imagined by teacher abusing the whole class of girls and us being threatened when we told the principal. The statistics on NZ’s violence problem, are they lies too? The highest rate of domestic violence in the developed world, it’s increased in recent years but convictions and court appearances have dropped. Police aren’t bothering to even arrest them. I also must of completely made up in my head all the many many articles in NZ media defending various All Blacks who hit their partners. My friends must of made up the abuse they get from kiwis online if they dare to want to talk about that.

NZ is a fucking scary place to be a woman and yes, for the ignorant kiwi posters with no clue, that is evident in the statistics and data. If you don’t know this and you live a carefree life walking around by yourself, without ever even encountering any other women who has been a victim, then you live in a very privileged bubble. But don’t you dare come here and tell anyone that kiwi women are safe as and none of what we just saw represents NZ. It does. It’s always been like this. Whether it’s Maori you’re silencing and stealing from, or women, you lot just don’t want anyone talking about it. I mean I’m familiar with white washing folks, but denying violence against women and girls is a problem there… that takes some nerve that does.

This. 100 times this..

PatientZorro · 29/03/2023 06:56

….on a busy train. No-one batted an eyelid.

PatientZorro · 29/03/2023 06:55

TiedUpWithABlackVelvetBand · 29/03/2023 01:30

The only time I’ve been assaulted in broad day light in a public space was in Warrington…

and? The only time I’ve been sexually assaulted was in Sydney.

TiedUpWithABlackVelvetBand · 29/03/2023 01:30

The only time I’ve been assaulted in broad day light in a public space was in Warrington…

SinnerBoy · 29/03/2023 00:38

@Bubblesoffun

Funny I got the same feeling in many small British villages.

To be fair, you can hear that sort of crap in the street, on Metro platforms and shops, where I live. Plenty of "I'm not racist but..."

SinnerBoy · 29/03/2023 00:33

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 22:14

Ah, all the way down South, there. For the hot weather!

Bubblesoffun · 28/03/2023 23:54

Queenofscones · 28/03/2023 22:52

I have family in New Zealand and have visited several times. When I was younger and was travelling around with friends and family I was impervious to the undercurrent but going back in 2019, and travelling alone quite a lot of the time, I had that Jane Campion Top of the Lake vibe in too many places on the South Island. Too many weird experiences with men pushing boundaries and being rude and abusive. I'm really not surprised to see it all coming out now. The misogyny and homophobia has never been far beneath the surface.

Funny I got the same feeling in many small British villages.

Queenofscones · 28/03/2023 22:52

I have family in New Zealand and have visited several times. When I was younger and was travelling around with friends and family I was impervious to the undercurrent but going back in 2019, and travelling alone quite a lot of the time, I had that Jane Campion Top of the Lake vibe in too many places on the South Island. Too many weird experiences with men pushing boundaries and being rude and abusive. I'm really not surprised to see it all coming out now. The misogyny and homophobia has never been far beneath the surface.

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2023 22:14

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2023 11:17

*sashh" · Today 10:26

I think there's a winery in Aberdeenshire. That could be a complete fever dream, of course...

And whoever said that Anchor is now made in Britain, thanks.

Perthshire. Cairn O Mhor.

Whaeanui · 28/03/2023 19:27

There is so much I love about Australia, including many wonderful people, but the misogyny and racism were never far away. People would openly slag off First Australian (aboriginal) patients at work, in a way that would never happen in the NHS

even just visiting, I had taxi drivers and shop assistants say unbelievably racist things. One lady said to my (white ) husband, do you guys have a problem with your blacks there too?!!! Can you imagine, so unashamedly racist to a stranger, like they’d join in. It’s how I feel about both countries, beautiful, lovely weather, great outdoor lifestyle and adventurous people… but they haven’t let go of the racism and sexism as much as other countries I’ve lived in or visited.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 28/03/2023 18:13

Queenofscones · 28/03/2023 18:07

However, scratch the surface of that beautiful place and you’ll find a huge undercurrent of misogyny and racism.

I agree. I have family In NZ and tend to go off touring on my own over there when I'm visiting, which I do every 4 or five years. The racism, even among nice, educated professionals like my family, is always lurking just below the surface. Last time I was driving randomly around the South Island I had too many odd encounters with big macho blokes. There were some very uncomfortable undercurrents. After Saturday's event I've stopped telling myself I must have been imagining things. The misogyny is real and I would now not want to travel solo over there.

I found the same in Oz, so I was not surprised to see the attacks on KJK there.

There is so much I love about Australia, including many wonderful people, but the misogyny and racism were never far away. People would openly slag off First Australian (aboriginal) patients at work, in a way that would never happen in the NHS. I'm not saying, of course, that the NHS has eliminated racism - far from it. But I've never come across such open, unapologetic workplace racism over here. And, despite always having worked in a male-dominated, quite macho medical speciality (urgent/emergency care), I have never encountered so much sexism as I did in Australia.

Queenofscones · 28/03/2023 18:07

However, scratch the surface of that beautiful place and you’ll find a huge undercurrent of misogyny and racism.

I agree. I have family In NZ and tend to go off touring on my own over there when I'm visiting, which I do every 4 or five years. The racism, even among nice, educated professionals like my family, is always lurking just below the surface. Last time I was driving randomly around the South Island I had too many odd encounters with big macho blokes. There were some very uncomfortable undercurrents. After Saturday's event I've stopped telling myself I must have been imagining things. The misogyny is real and I would now not want to travel solo over there.

Whaeanui · 28/03/2023 16:01

@HermioneKipper sadly it’s not changed, my friend is currently working in a govt dept. It’s just unbelievable isn’t it. It’s a very common attitude.

HermioneKipper · 28/03/2023 15:56

Whaeanui · 28/03/2023 15:52

I worked for the government while I was there and the amount of people that openly insulted Māori people was shocking.

oh interesting @HermioneKipper I have someone close to me who was on the receiving end of that kind of thing there.

It was over 10 years ago now but I assume that kind of thing doesn’t change overnight.

I’m so sorry to hear that.

In the govt department I worked in, we had a Māori officer specifically employed to deal with Māori issues. They were careful about what they said in front of him but once his back was turned he was also a target for being ‘a pain and obsessed with Māoris ….’

Whaeanui · 28/03/2023 15:52

I worked for the government while I was there and the amount of people that openly insulted Māori people was shocking.

oh interesting @HermioneKipper I have someone close to me who was on the receiving end of that kind of thing there.

HermioneKipper · 28/03/2023 15:43

I also lived and worked in NZ and have a huge amount of affection for the place.

However, scratch the surface of that beautiful place and you’ll find a huge undercurrent of misogyny and racism.

I worked for the government while I was there and the amount of people that openly insulted Māori people was shocking. Calling them stupid/drunks/violent/benefits seekers etc etc. With absolutely no consequences - right up to senior levels. They all preach about how inclusive they are, use Māori words in daily language, know the Haka etc but it’s all BS and for show.

Attitudes towards women are shocking as well. Domestic violence goes up when the All Blacks lose a game and it has amongst the highest rates of DV in the western world.

So all in all, very upsetting scenes but not really that shocking when you scratch the surface. Any excuse to abuse women

nilsmousehammer · 28/03/2023 14:21

RosaBonheur · 28/03/2023 13:41

There's a reason they don't want to have an intelligent discussion.

It's because all the reasons why trans women should be in women's spaces ultimately boil down to one: because they want to be.

Humans can't change sex, and gender isn't actually real. Nobody who believes in gender can explain what it actually is without resorting to stereotypes which the majority of people don't conform to anyway. Nobody who believes in gender identity can explain what it is other than simply having a personality, or what their gender identity has to do with anyone else.

This whole ideology is a form of extreme individualism. I want to be a woman and I believe I have the right to force the whole of the rest of society to deny the evidence of their own eyes and pretend that I am a woman, regardless of what impact that has on their ability to feel safe and comfortable in changing rooms, access rape crisis services or compete fairly in sports.

As soon as you start trying to discuss it rationally, it becomes clear that gender ideology is indefensible and unworkable at a societal level. You simply cannot give these rights to trans people without others suffering as a consequence.

We could have that intelligent discussion and eventually land on a compromise where we address trans women as "she", we don't abuse or harass people for wearing gender non conforming clothing, we don't discriminate against people in employment or other areas of public life for presenting in a certain way, and where, over time, we create additional third spaces for trans people so they can use the toilet and get changed safely and with dignity, without encroaching on women's spaces and compromising women's ability to do exactly the same.

But that's not a compromise we are ever going to reach because it's not what they want. A women's toilet without any women in it is just a toilet. A women's swimming competition without any women in it is, well, a men's swimming competition.

Ultimately, it is an ideology which just doesn't make a damn bit of sense, and politicians on the left and centre probably should have thought about this before hitching themselves so publicly to the trans rights bandwagon.

I mean no disrespect to trans people, or rather, people with gender dysphoria, when I say this. And ultimately I think they are starting to lose public support and the zealotry of the trans activists will ultimately cause innocent trans people untold harm.

But this is the reason why they don't want to have an intelligent discussion. It's why reasoned debate must be prevented at all costs. It's why women must not be allowed to speak.

That.

And the international behaviour this weekend demonstrated, there is no point in trying to have a rational conversation with someone who has completely lost it, and is screaming, spitting and trying to hit you like a thwarted toddler.

What's needed right now is extremely firm re establishment of the message that however you happen to feel and however you identify, you do not get exempted from the laws of the land and a free pass to be a violent nutjob.

A rational conversation takes two parties with the capacity for rationality.

RosaBonheur · 28/03/2023 13:41

JanesLittleGirl · 28/03/2023 13:28

The opportunity for the intelligent discussion was in the park in Auckland. Unfortunately, the TRAs chose not to play.

There's a reason they don't want to have an intelligent discussion.

It's because all the reasons why trans women should be in women's spaces ultimately boil down to one: because they want to be.

Humans can't change sex, and gender isn't actually real. Nobody who believes in gender can explain what it actually is without resorting to stereotypes which the majority of people don't conform to anyway. Nobody who believes in gender identity can explain what it is other than simply having a personality, or what their gender identity has to do with anyone else.

This whole ideology is a form of extreme individualism. I want to be a woman and I believe I have the right to force the whole of the rest of society to deny the evidence of their own eyes and pretend that I am a woman, regardless of what impact that has on their ability to feel safe and comfortable in changing rooms, access rape crisis services or compete fairly in sports.

As soon as you start trying to discuss it rationally, it becomes clear that gender ideology is indefensible and unworkable at a societal level. You simply cannot give these rights to trans people without others suffering as a consequence.

We could have that intelligent discussion and eventually land on a compromise where we address trans women as "she", we don't abuse or harass people for wearing gender non conforming clothing, we don't discriminate against people in employment or other areas of public life for presenting in a certain way, and where, over time, we create additional third spaces for trans people so they can use the toilet and get changed safely and with dignity, without encroaching on women's spaces and compromising women's ability to do exactly the same.

But that's not a compromise we are ever going to reach because it's not what they want. A women's toilet without any women in it is just a toilet. A women's swimming competition without any women in it is, well, a men's swimming competition.

Ultimately, it is an ideology which just doesn't make a damn bit of sense, and politicians on the left and centre probably should have thought about this before hitching themselves so publicly to the trans rights bandwagon.

I mean no disrespect to trans people, or rather, people with gender dysphoria, when I say this. And ultimately I think they are starting to lose public support and the zealotry of the trans activists will ultimately cause innocent trans people untold harm.

But this is the reason why they don't want to have an intelligent discussion. It's why reasoned debate must be prevented at all costs. It's why women must not be allowed to speak.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/03/2023 13:28

Busybutbored · 28/03/2023 11:14

Finally someone who speaks with some reason. Why can't there just be an intelligent discussion about the topic which might then actually educate people.

The opportunity for the intelligent discussion was in the park in Auckland. Unfortunately, the TRAs chose not to play.