Kellie-Jay Queen

Kia ora @Whaeanui - thanks for sharing your viewpoint!

I know the media slant isn’t the real slant, but the counter protest just seemed so overwhelming. I am in the NZ SUFW FB group, so I know what is being said behind closed doors, and I also know what people are saying in conversations behind closed doors, because I’m part of them - although I am also in Wellington so I so clearly see this side of it, as well.

Interested to hear your viewpoint as wahine(?) Māori, as I saw the interview with Marama Davidson being massively pro-TRA and saying te ao Māori is ‘far less boring than just binary’, and I figure if tangata whenua are against this, we have a losing battle on our hands.

Apologies to whoever thinks we’re detailing, but this has just happened here - it’s important, and we’re trying to process it. OK?

I am kiwi.

And while I accept it's just my opinion it's an informed one and most kiwis are not rural.

While I accept that a Maori flying wedge would change the debate I see no signs of one forming. What I am seeing is claims that before colonialism trans people were normal and accepted. I doubt this is accurate but I see no public contradiction.

«Because they know they have no counter arguments. They know their position is incoherent, nonsensical and flies in the face of reason and safeguarding.
That’s why they can’t let us speak. That’s why they can’t debate. Because what we say makes sense and they don’t. »

Perfectly put.

Because they know they have no counter arguments. They know their position is incoherent, nonsensical and flies in the face of reason and safeguarding.

That’s why they can’t let us speak. That’s why they can’t debate. Because what we say makes sense and they don’t.

All In saying is how people here in NZ are likely to view this situation. Don't shoot the messenger.

One man’s opinion though. People at your workplace don’t represent rural kiwis do they? And you’re not kiwi yourself so I think you don’t have the best perspective on this.

Several people have said how awful this church is, and I get the feeling the response is to shrug your shoulders and say “well I know I’m not like that so whatever”. The shit will stick to every GC person whether you like or support KJK or not. Why doesn’t that bother you people?

The church and that stupid man turn up to everything, kiwis know this. The media themselves said he was a counter protest to Posie and even blamed him for the violence against her.

Feminism is for all women, even those who belong to this whatever church.

Because women can't stop men being violent to them, how do you stop men supporting you when you don't want them to?

Because denounces them just gets ignored anyway so why keep repeating ourselves?

Who determines who is a wrong person? Now it is someone most of us can agree on, but KJK is a good example of the ever shifting criteria of being a 'wrong one'

Because it is a negatieve energy inducing and exhausting to keep having to justify yourself that you want single sex spaces and sports

Because we cannot believe some people will believe lies and slander over and over again because they are fearful they will get smeared too (see how it works: wrong dude shows up, women who are there are bad, therefore women who share other womans ideas are bad too, everything gets tainted with an association that was never there)

KJK is what a woman looks like.

I feel this is a turning point. People are waking up.

@TiedUpWithABlackVelvetBand Kia Ora! I understand your frustrations. But there is a glimmer of hope. Things can take time to change sometimes in NZ. But if anyone thinks Posies visit was only received negatively by NZers they are mistaken. Mainstream media aren’t ever going to show you the truth on this kind of thing. They never have in all my decades of protesting different issues, my mother has been protesting a long time too. Kiwis know what the media are like. A lot of kiwis didn’t know what self ID law meant or that it even happened. I think the world rugby decision on banning trans women from women’s competitions raised awareness a lot, as rugby is the main sport and like a religion. That issue really opened people’s eyes because NZ Rugby didn’t agree with it and had allowed it at amateur level. They have been consulting on that policy now for over 3 years, I made a submission myself, so did the players who overwhelmingly do not think males should play in women’s competition- that didn’t make headlines at all btw. They seem scared to do anything and likely waited on other organisations like RFU.

If you live in a (white) middle class bubble or think what NZ media says is gospel, you may think this is a done deal. But outside of that, people there are starting to become aware or have been fighting this for some time. A lot of them Maori and Polynesian women. They are not going to let this go. Trust me. I have whanau, and there are many many Maori doing this, who are still combing through piles of documents to find all the bits of land taken from us. Our language was banned from being taught at all in my lifetime and now it’s going to be part of mainstream learning alongside English- officially rather than us having separate schools only teaching it. Twenty years ago I had in laws tell me not to bother teaching my kids Maori, it was a dead language. Now their kids learn it at school. I felt hopeless yesterday, but today I feel Posies spirit and her drive and think, we will win this war, even if we lose the odd battle along the way.

Thanks Posie, & Kia Kaha!

It could have easily been this.

A women taken out by a mob, a few countries can claim that

If all a bunch of religious men did to 'support' her was do an orchestrated war dance, rather than actually help her out, then what support is this exactly? I watched the footage live and saw no men helping her that weren't being paid to do so.

In case anyone needs one:

What a brilliant image!

You know what, it’s sickening how good she still looks having been ‘souped’ - like one of those women that take part in ‘Colour Runs’ and come out if it still looking fresh as a daisy covered in powder paint.

If I was souped I’d bloody look like I’d been souped. Bloody hell Kellie, give a mere mortals a chance will you! 😂😂

Of course it's just a small proportion 🙄 but I'd say the sentiment there was a fair reflection of general views - which are intolerant or being intolerant

Reddit isn't remotely representative. It skews very young and very woke and is deliberately moderated to be that way.

Well that was utterly shamefull and the closest I have ever seen in a western city to a woman being torn limb from limb by an out of control baying mob, all brought to you by the good folks at Main Stream Media.
Had they injured or even killed her they Media would have been queuing up to distance themselves from responsibility and saying she brought it on herself

It is - the smearing has been shocking and troubling

Reddit is not representative of anything . The GC sub Reddit was deleted by than loon Aimee Challenor. It had 62, 000 subscribers. The detrans sub Reddit was also binned ...but may be back now?

I deleted Reddit back then so wouldn't know. Looking at Twitter I'd say 90% of comments are supporting GC women.

As pp have said though these sites are less important than they'd have you believe. I read that the mighty Twitter reaches 8% of the worlds population. Even in Europe/ USA it's only 15%.

The most encouraging thing I've read in years!

I've been APPALLED at some of the NZ media coverage. Don't think I've ever seen such awful obvious propaganda.

I hope that the sports stuff and Cass and various u turns for paediatric 'trans' care etc starts filter through.

The sycophancy here is on another level isn’t it? Do you honestly not care who supports KJK along with you? Several people have said how awful this church is, and I get the feeling the response is to shrug your shoulders and say “well I know I’m not like that so whatever”. The shit will stick to every GC person whether you like or support KJK or not. Why doesn’t that bother you people?

What an image

She is courageous

You set out your stall in a way that makes them not want to touch you.

If, say, KJK set herself out as either a campaigner for lesbian rights, or was just a very boring person I suspect they'd have left her alone.

Not easy, to be honest.

I love this type of comment. Completely pointless. It's code for "I have no actual argument so I will call you rubbish". That's not quite the standard we aspire to in this forum.

How does anyone stop the "wrong" people turning up at public events? It's impossible to police. What would you do?

@canfor

Yes - there really are very few checks and balances here. NZ is a village of 5 million people - and consensus forms very quickly. The flip side of is that it can be remade very quickly but in the meantime the LGBTQ+ lobby, which is very powerful here, and very very much part of this country's traditions, is firmly on the side of the trans lobby in all respects. My view is that the chance of that changing is nil and it's unlikely that any mainstream politician will challenge them.

Stop derailing the thread! I want to read people's tributes to KJK. If you want to talk about other stuff, find another thread. There are plenty.

Anyone see Jordan Peterson's tweet today? This is a woman!