World Athletics

Oh, thank you, that makes perfect sense bloody depressing argument

I couldn't work out how system redundancy linked to transgender male athletes in female competitions!

The n+1 thing comes from "it'll never happen" then when the thing does happen "it was just once." It's always the next time that matters.

I gave him many examples including Isla Bryson, Karen White, Emily Bridges, Lia Thomas, Barbie Kardashian - which was "too specific" because obviously it's easier to deal in generality and be kindness, than actual fact and fairness 🙄

Excellent news. Massive thank you and congratulations to all the athletes who have been campaigning so hard on this

n+1 is the answer to how many women have to suffer / be affected before change happens.

So it goes from "it never happens" to "it is so rare it is irrelevant" There will never be a limit to how many women get hurt, it is always nearly there, but not quite.

Yay 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽👌 I almost gave up watching athletics when you know it’s dudes running.

and the commentators having to say. Oh how talented

Already the misleading headlines and Stonewall tweet - they are not banned, they just have to compete in the correct sex category.

I love the response up thread that men should just try harder to have babies.

You have my utter condolences.

However, I must ask.

What the hell is the n+1 argument?

Everything I looked up seemed to be about system redundancy...

Its very un PC of me but I would have given DS a Gibbs* slap if he'd said that in front of me.

(Early days of NCIS)

Came here to say similar.

FFS....they are NOT female!! And why not no forever? They aren't FEMALE, they never will be, and that's the way it is.

It's the equivalent of a parent saying "there there, it's ok, maybe one day ok, shhhhhhh now, don't cry"

Stop the soothing and placating. It doesn't help anyone, if anything it gives them all a glimmer of hope that they can fight the decision, when what they should be doing is backing the fuck OFF women's events.

The answer is NO, thank goodness.

I stopped watching athletics years ago because of the policy of allowing men with DSDs compete as women. There's no interest or excitement in watching a man beat a woman.
This is great news and I will definitely start watching again!

My 15 year old DS, who has declared "it isn't fair," "women should just try harder"

OK, then, but men should just try harder to gestate babies. Is it a deal? 😉

This is a good start but it needs to now be applied at national and grassroots levels - that's where the real problems are already apparent.

My 15 year old DS, who has declared "it isn't fair," "women should just try harder" and "women aren't interested in sport anyway." It was like having a RL TRA at my kitchen table. Even DH who usually avoids the issue leapt in with a story about Chris Evert and John Lloyd. We then moved onto prisons - turns out he believes in rapistgender, which I had to point out was very transphobic of him. He also seems to believe in the n+1 argument. I no longer believe in washing his clothes so we'll see how long he keeps it up.

Yes, but it is less clearcut with some DSDs, e.g. CAIS. People with CAIS have male gonads (internally) but don't respond to testosterone normally. They have a vagina, though usually not a uterus, and they develop breasts at puberty. So is that a male or female puberty?

On the news now, amazing news.

Exactly. I do feel sorry that Caster's sensitive medical information became public knowledge when she was so young, but that's on her coaches, for putting her forward for competitions when they must have known by that point that she was male - competitors spotted it immediately.

People with Semenya's condition go through male puberty don't they? So they at least would be kept out by the main rule.

So does that mean trans men can’t compete in women’s sport??!

Transmen do not exist. Transmen are invisible. Similar to middle aged women really.

Fantastic news!

The phrase 'fairness over inclusion' always really annoys me. Every man competing in the female category is a woman excluded. Every male winner is a female winner excluded.

However, I am very happy that now we have fairness and inclusion for women in athletics! I think 'not saying no forever' is an attempt to shut up the TRAs. They will have a lot more opposition if they try to roll back on this in future.

BBC headline: ‘World Athletics bans transgender female athletes from competing in female world ranking events’

So does that mean trans men can’t compete in women’s sport??!