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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They walk among us

58 replies

TooManyAnimals94 · 22/03/2023 20:13

I've ummed and ahhed about posting this but I've been following this topic for a while now and sometimes I feel you are the only sane people anywhere.
I had a conversation slightly heated debate with a colleague today that initially made me angry and now I'm feeling quite upset about it because I realised that so few people actually LISTEN TO WOMEN.

Our school had a charity football match to raise money for Stonewall's Inclusion in Sport initiative. For reasons I'm sure you can understand I did not participate in any way and sat in the staff room minding my own.
There were two others there and we're having a jokey conversation about how they weren't joining in because they're no good at sport. I said (and maybe I shouldn't have) that I thought it was a questionable charity, especially for an all girl's school.
They asked me what I meant and I said I believed Stonewall did some excellent work a few years ago but they have lost their way and seem obsessed with supporting aggressive TRAs, getting self ID made into law and endangering women and girls.
One of the two (a biology teacher- go figure) completely understood what I meant about single sex spaces and said before I could that self ID could lead to predators taking advantage.
The second man proceeded to tell me that TWAW, men are no more of a threat than another woman? And in the countries where self ID had been brought in, nothing awful had happened. I couldn't really counter this because I don't know that much about Ireland, Finland or NZ (but I plan to find out!)

But this is what really shocked and horrified me. I said, what if a woman who has been raped or abused by her partner flees to a refuge and the first member of staff she meets is a biological male. Does she not have the right to a completely safe space? And he said "But that hypothetical person is not a man, she's a transwoman and is no more of a threat than any other woman"

I said what about perceived threat ? And he basically shrugged and said women should "accept " TWAW.

He also said segregation in prisons was not necessary because TW were just as vulnerable as women and self ID wouldn't affect bathrooms and changing rooms because it's already illegal to sexually harass someone in a changing room. Oh ok we'll just wait till there's an actual assault then shall we? Just offer women and girls up as sacrificial lambs.

I tried a different route and said OK, well what does it mean to "feel like a man" and he came out with some waffle about a combination of biology and culture??

This is a man with an Oxford doctorate. What on earth has happened to his brain? He's also a gay man who I'm sure would be horrified to be on a date with someone who turned out to have a vagina instead of a penis.

I'm quite thick skinned but I'm really upset at the fact my views were dismissed as right wing propaganda and my perfectly reasonable expectations of keeping single sex spaces mansplained away.

People would never suggest ethnic minorities are "silly" for talking about discrimination against them, or disabled people or any other group. Why this absolute refusal to listen to things that women have actually experienced?

OP posts:
TooManyAnimals94 · 22/03/2023 20:53

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ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ · 22/03/2023 20:51

TooManyAnimals94 · 22/03/2023 20:13

I've ummed and ahhed about posting this but I've been following this topic for a while now and sometimes I feel you are the only sane people anywhere.
I had a conversation slightly heated debate with a colleague today that initially made me angry and now I'm feeling quite upset about it because I realised that so few people actually LISTEN TO WOMEN.

Our school had a charity football match to raise money for Stonewall's Inclusion in Sport initiative. For reasons I'm sure you can understand I did not participate in any way and sat in the staff room minding my own.
There were two others there and we're having a jokey conversation about how they weren't joining in because they're no good at sport. I said (and maybe I shouldn't have) that I thought it was a questionable charity, especially for an all girl's school.
They asked me what I meant and I said I believed Stonewall did some excellent work a few years ago but they have lost their way and seem obsessed with supporting aggressive TRAs, getting self ID made into law and endangering women and girls.
One of the two (a biology teacher- go figure) completely understood what I meant about single sex spaces and said before I could that self ID could lead to predators taking advantage.
The second man proceeded to tell me that TWAW, men are no more of a threat than another woman? And in the countries where self ID had been brought in, nothing awful had happened. I couldn't really counter this because I don't know that much about Ireland, Finland or NZ (but I plan to find out!)

But this is what really shocked and horrified me. I said, what if a woman who has been raped or abused by her partner flees to a refuge and the first member of staff she meets is a biological male. Does she not have the right to a completely safe space? And he said "But that hypothetical person is not a man, she's a transwoman and is no more of a threat than any other woman"

I said what about perceived threat ? And he basically shrugged and said women should "accept " TWAW.

He also said segregation in prisons was not necessary because TW were just as vulnerable as women and self ID wouldn't affect bathrooms and changing rooms because it's already illegal to sexually harass someone in a changing room. Oh ok we'll just wait till there's an actual assault then shall we? Just offer women and girls up as sacrificial lambs.

I tried a different route and said OK, well what does it mean to "feel like a man" and he came out with some waffle about a combination of biology and culture??

This is a man with an Oxford doctorate. What on earth has happened to his brain? He's also a gay man who I'm sure would be horrified to be on a date with someone who turned out to have a vagina instead of a penis.

I'm quite thick skinned but I'm really upset at the fact my views were dismissed as right wing propaganda and my perfectly reasonable expectations of keeping single sex spaces mansplained away.

People would never suggest ethnic minorities are "silly" for talking about discrimination against them, or disabled people or any other group. Why this absolute refusal to listen to things that women have actually experienced?

Oh there's a shocker! A very privileged male who supports trans rights over women's!!!

Despite the fact I would of expected him to have have that opinion it is no less disappointing and frustrating. Just eugh. 😔

Apollo441 · 22/03/2023 20:50

Who believes this 'women are just as dangerous too bollox'?
Tell your colleague 99% of sexual assaults are carried out by men, however they identify. Infact it seems transwomen are more likely to be sexual offenders given that over 50% of those claiming to be transwomen are in for sexual offensives (a much higher percentage than men). Either it's true or these people aren't 'real' transwomen and if they aren't 'real' transwomen, how can we tell the difference. So harmless, they are not and for that reason should be treated exactly the same way other males. If your colleague has any research that shows that they don't offend at the same rate would he kindly show it because we have data from the Ministry of Justice and the census so I'd be interested to see it (he won't have any evidence by the way).

UWhatNow · 22/03/2023 20:32

Orwell said something along the lines of (forgive the paraphrasing): ‘some ideas are so stupid, only intellectuals can believe them.’

Instead of trying to argue with stupid I would snort and just dismiss their ignorance as stuff and nonsense. You can’t change sex. They are still men and men as a sex class are more of a threat to women than the other way around. Indisputable facts in any conceivable scenario.

Rightsraptor · 22/03/2023 20:27

I'm not surprised you're upset,@TooManyAnimals94 and I would be too. We know on here that academic intelligence does not equal common or garden intelligence - quite the opposite, in fact. People with lots of degrees are often the most sold on this ideology. I have no idea why but wouldn't waste my time trying to figure it out. There's probably no answer.

Your colleague is a man and will never know what it is to live as a woman. It's so easy for him to tell women what we should do, it's never going to affect him after all. He's shown you what a knob he is. Believe him.

maltravers · 22/03/2023 20:24

Because no one is interested in women’s oppression unfortunately. Other people’s “rights” are always more important.

BlackForestCake · 22/03/2023 20:24

I used to think that repressive regimes got their populations to support them because they were so repressive and people were afraid.

Now I think it's much simpler and that a lot of people will just believe anything they're told.

Russians believe what the government tells them. Chinese believe what the government tells them. And so do we.

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