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Original poster

Come on Ireland! Leo Varadkar says violent males should NOT be in prison with women

330 replies

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 19:08

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1638242240609804288

'"Is Barbie Kardashian a woman?": Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says that biological males should not be put in women's prisons.'

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1638242240609804288

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UtopiaPlanitia · 22/03/2023 16:35

Wanderingowl · 22/03/2023 15:59

Paddy O'Gorman has done quite a bit on it. He chanced onto the story when he was interviewing people outside Limerick prison and encountered a woman who had been on the women's wing when 2 transwomen were there. He couldn't believe it and has had a few episodes of his podcast interviewing former women prisoners who experienced it or their relatives.

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I listened to Paddy’s podcast on Limerick prison and found it very informative. One of the former women prisoners that he interviewed detailed how the three sex offenders were in cells on the women’s landing and the women were only allowed out to get food (and a little rec time) but were then locked back in their cells afterwards to segregate them from the sex offenders.

She detailed how the sex offenders shouted rude/vulgar things at the women and managed to intimidate and upset the women prisoners even when they were all locked in their cells almost all day long. She described how women used the stairs on the opposite side of the landing to avoid hearing vulgar things the sex offenders shouted at them. She related that the majority of women on the women’s landing were mothers and were horrified about a child abuser being housed on the landing with them. Other women had been sexually abused and were terrified by the shouting and by the fact that the sex offenders had sexually abused women.

She also described how the women were punished with being locked back in their cells for criticising sex offenders being on the women’s landing. She stated the sex offenders got out of their cells more often than the women prisoners.

Paddy spoke to quite a few of the recently released prisoners and their families, he was very good at getting people to talk about upsetting things.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 22/03/2023 16:33

I hope you still have it on your system, I am absolutely convinced he was lying when he said he didn't know about it and the more solid evidence the better. Though unless anyone in the gutless media is prepared to report it, who will know?

Lostmarblesfinder · 22/03/2023 16:27

Hmmmmm I sent an email to loads of TDs about this well over a year ago. I doubt I left Leo off my list as tainiste at the time. Hmmmm hmmmmm.

ChateauMargaux · 22/03/2023 16:25

When less than a quarter of the governing representatives are female, female issues are relegated to 'everyone' issues and men's issues remain top of the agenda, redardless of what proportion of the male population those issues affect.

Harris has reworded and rephrased LV's comments.. 'the point he was trying to make ... what I took from the comment'... saying 'regardless of gender' several times, 'incarcerated appropriately', 'individual risk assessment' ..

So what does that mean... extra security measures? Several posters on twitter seem to think that the fact that BK is under the permament surveillance of two prison guards means women are safe there so there endeth the argument.

We all heard LV say.. Violent Men should not be incarcerated in Women's prisons.

I despair... where are the voices pushing this open door when people like Harris are hastily shutting it again.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 22/03/2023 16:22

paddyspodcast.ie/episodes-3/

Wanderingowl · 22/03/2023 15:59

johnnytightlips · 21/03/2023 21:09

Michael Martin looked seriously pissed off and Roddy looked fairly shifty.
It is a disgrace that very few mainstream media have pushed this. The only one I can think of is Mark Tighe.

Paddy O'Gorman has done quite a bit on it. He chanced onto the story when he was interviewing people outside Limerick prison and encountered a woman who had been on the women's wing when 2 transwomen were there. He couldn't believe it and has had a few episodes of his podcast interviewing former women prisoners who experienced it or their relatives.

Didactylos · 22/03/2023 15:57

The video with expressions and eye rolling - classic creeping jesus

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 15:47

Once you see the tactics you can address them. Hold fast, focus on the issue in hand. Barbie Kardashian is a violent male who fantasises about killing women. He is also a transwoman. He is the walking embodiment of the problems with self ID women have been trying to raise for years.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 22/03/2023 15:46

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/03/2023 15:19

Yes, predictable. But the genie is out of the bottle now.

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I really hope you’re right but every time the topic of Barbie Kardashian, or men in women’s spaces, has managed to get into the news cycle it gets smothered by newspaper articles with confusing pronoun-use and (when it came to reporting on BK) entire articles written about the issue not mentioning the violent offenders’ biological sex.

And then the ‘cool girl’ opinion pieces start up in the Irish Times, slagging off women who raise the safeguarding issues as being narrow-minded, transphobic, right wing, or ‘West Brits’. These tactics have been successful thus far at killing off attempts at genuine public debate - also, see what happened to Joe after Liveline tried to host discussion on the topic last year.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/03/2023 15:19

UtopiaPlanitia · 22/03/2023 15:14

How reassuring that almost immediately Harris changes the topic under discussion from ‘women should be safe and protected in prison’ to ‘everyone should be safe and protected in prison’. Takes the sting out of the topic and reduces it to a less urgent-seeming issue.

This is what happens when policies that negatively affect women are treated as unisex issues, women’s specific needs and problems get lost.

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Yes, predictable. But the genie is out of the bottle now.

UtopiaPlanitia · 22/03/2023 15:14

StephanieSuperpowers · 22/03/2023 13:12

Crisis averted! Ministers have been brought back into line:

‘Nobody should be at risk of violence in prison' – Justice Minister says new rules on management of trans offenders to be published - Independent.ie

How reassuring that almost immediately Harris changes the topic under discussion from ‘women should be safe and protected in prison’ to ‘everyone should be safe and protected in prison’. Takes the sting out of the topic and reduces it to a less urgent-seeming issue.

This is what happens when policies that negatively affect women are treated as unisex issues, women’s specific needs and problems get lost.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 14:44

I won't claim to be eloquent, but even just a short note - all they need is to get the gist that you support them in supporting women's rights - something like:

'Thank you for your recent comments on the subject of males in women's prisons. It's good to see politicians standing up for the protection of women, who should never be incarcerated with males. Women prisoners are often vulnerable and deserve our support and compassion. Their loss of freedom is punishment enough; incarcerating women with males is contrary to the Geneva Convention and puts them at risk of both physical and mental trauma.

I'm sure you'll agree that women's rights are human rights, and that women deserve to be protected from the threat of male violence. '

Maybe someone else could improve on that - I have to run for the school pick up!

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alwaysawaster · 22/03/2023 14:31

@ArabellaScott I'd love it if any eloquent posters here could give us Irish women some template text to start us off.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 14:21

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/member/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08/

I'm never sure if letters in support from Scotland would be helpful or a hindrance. Happy to send if that might be useful, if anyone has any thoughts on the matter?

Norma Foley

33rd Dáil

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/member/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 14:20

It might be a good time to forge some golden bridges, if so. If you're in Ireland, letters to your representatives on the issue, in support of women and women's rights, and thanking Varadkar and Norma Foley, might be a good idea.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 14:19

alwaysawaster · 22/03/2023 14:14

Norma Foley has agreed with Leo's comments.

Norma is such an eejit to stick her head above the parapet given she's the Minister for Education, and responsible for what our kids are hearing in schools with regard to Gender Identity.

All we need now is the Minister for Sport to do his own own goal eh?

Interesting. Maybe you have a bit of a terfy Minister for Ed?

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DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 22/03/2023 14:15

I tried to share, again, the link to Paddy O'Gorman's interview with a woman lately discharged from Limerick prison describing the impact of the transgender prisoners and it isn't being accepted, but google his name and 'Paddy's podcasts' - it's in season 2 and is called 'Limerick prison'. Well worth listening to, and quite short.

alwaysawaster · 22/03/2023 14:14

Norma Foley has agreed with Leo's comments.

Norma is such an eejit to stick her head above the parapet given she's the Minister for Education, and responsible for what our kids are hearing in schools with regard to Gender Identity.

All we need now is the Minister for Sport to do his own own goal eh?

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 14:11

It's a start. After so bloody long, it's a start.

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Mamette · 22/03/2023 14:06

alwaysawaster · 22/03/2023 13:34

Leo has always been good at sniffing what way the wind was blowing - and this is no different. He knew, has always known about these issues.

He just didn't give a fuck until he saw Sturgeon topple. And was cute enough to recognise that a TWAW stance on it would be career ending.

As to why RTE aren't covering it - well they are still hiding under the bed shaking, aren't they?

Now, Leo, lets have a chat about TW in LGFA, eh?

I suspect this is all accurate.

Still. At least it’s progress even if not driven by his own integrity.

Genesis1v27 · 22/03/2023 13:59

Newstalk report on Justice Minister Simon Harris' statement:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/new-transgender-prisoner-policy-to-be-completed-within-weeks-harris-1448879

Genesis1v27 · 22/03/2023 13:57

A report in 2021:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/transgender-inmates-are-housed-inwomens-wing-of-prison-40430731.html

The page is available on archive sites.

alwaysawaster · 22/03/2023 13:55

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 13:52

Horrific. Do you have any idea who those other two males are in the women's prison?

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I read somewhere that one reportedly sexually assaulted women and at least one girl. The other also is a sex offender supposedly but I don't know any more than that.
But I've no facts to back those statements up.