Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘Identifying as a woman’ is self-defeating, so instead this leads to...

120 replies

Shelefttheweb · 20/03/2023 09:57

I saw a tweet the other days where a transwomen was miffed when another transwoman was in the ladies toilets as it ‘spoilt the point’. So thinking where this all ultimately leads to:

  • All spaces mixed sex
  • Sex-based terms and pronouns meaningless with children brought up on it not even realising it once had a sex based meaning
  • Men’s sport and other men’s sports
  • Health information referring to what? Euphemisms? Sex-based body part names are a no no
  • Fetishes losing their allure as no element of being forbidden or crossing boundaries so what next?

what else?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
jlpartnerrs · 23/03/2023 10:16

I'm currently on the waiting list for an ADHD assessment, having a period of calm in my life after being diagnosed with GAD, Depression, Alcohol Misuse Disorder, self diag PMDD and PTSD from a horrendous birth.

I have had the piss taken out of me by my family over it all, but I remind myself that although they see that I CAN function, they don't see the washing machine head. I'm on HRT which has been a massive revelation and I struggle with ensuring I take it properly (Mostly that's a yes)

It's hard and I'm a private person. I really empathize and agree with what's been written here.

nepeta · 21/03/2023 17:38

nepeta · 21/03/2023 17:28

I've noticed certain kinds of accounts on Twitter more often recently, clearly owned by young people who in their profiles write down their gender and sexual identities and then the mental health conditions they believe they suffer from, or at least the ones which are defined as neurodiverse (autism, ADHD). Bipolar is also often listed but not various other mental disorders (not even depression or schizophrenia etc.)

It's not unheard of, to do something like this on Twitter, if you advocate for people who share a particular condition, but it used to be rare for people who use their account only to tweet about anime and music etc. to do so.

In some of those profiles the person states that the diagnoses are based on self-identifying, and this suggests that there is some kudos to be had from declaring those conditions, or, perhaps, that they can be used to defend rudeness in tweeting?

I am not sure, and I certainly don't want to pretend that I can distance-diagnose anyone. But this is a real change in social media, and worth understanding better.

And given that I have had a very long (and expensive) battle to recover from (medically diagnosed) PTSD (fairly successfully, thanks to the powers that might be), I feel ice-cold anger about the appropriation of the name and its facile use to refer to slight discomfort at something.

nepeta · 21/03/2023 17:28

I've noticed certain kinds of accounts on Twitter more often recently, clearly owned by young people who in their profiles write down their gender and sexual identities and then the mental health conditions they believe they suffer from, or at least the ones which are defined as neurodiverse (autism, ADHD). Bipolar is also often listed but not various other mental disorders (not even depression or schizophrenia etc.)

It's not unheard of, to do something like this on Twitter, if you advocate for people who share a particular condition, but it used to be rare for people who use their account only to tweet about anime and music etc. to do so.

In some of those profiles the person states that the diagnoses are based on self-identifying, and this suggests that there is some kudos to be had from declaring those conditions, or, perhaps, that they can be used to defend rudeness in tweeting?

I am not sure, and I certainly don't want to pretend that I can distance-diagnose anyone. But this is a real change in social media, and worth understanding better.

JarByTheDoor · 21/03/2023 15:36

In that case I'm glad I mentioned it Dean — I wasn't sure whether to! It's quite a rare ingredient TBF (sometimes also referred to as codex wheat starch); shouldn't further limit your options too much, though the extra label-reading is an arse, sorry 😔

JarByTheDoor · 21/03/2023 15:29

My point is that I think that the 'trendy diagnosis/ self diagnosis' thing risks putting people who perhaps need help off just as much as it might encourage people to come forward. Especially knowing the cost / length of waiting lists for it as a result of a whole new industry springing up.

Absolutely agree with this RedToothBrush. Nobody wants to feel like a bandwagon-jumping trend-follower, and as the owner of a few current and erstwhile trendy labels myself, I've been through that exact thought process when considering whether to request assessment, both for ASD and for ADHD.

I don't actually think of myself conceptually as "having ADHD" — my experiences and traits can fit the criteria, but it makes more sense to me to consider them as part of the ASD (which was diagnosed several years prior); many things I do or experience can occur in either disorder, or would be given one name under ASD, and another under ADHD. The drugs can work for certain issues whichever diagnosis you have, but in the NHS you need an ADHD diagnosis for stimulants, so I sought assessment, described my difficulties within the ADHD framework, and gained another initialism. Essentially, I swallowed my discomfort at potentially being seen as a mindless trend-following poser looking for excuses and a way to feel special, so I could get the drugs.

Of course there are so many adults who would meet criteria if assessed, but who are undiagnosed because of changes in our understanding of these conditions, that I'd imagine few of those seeking adult ND diagnoses are trend-following posers. But in a world where people titter, "Oh everyone's got ADHD these days! It's all these phones and TikToks and wanting an advantage on exams, and not enough Proust and hard manual labour," it's hard not to let that affect how you feel about seeking diagnosis.

I guess increased awareness and publicity about a disorder is always going to lead to parallel increases in undiagnosed people suspecting they have the condition and perhaps seeking diagnosis, and possibly unaffected people confidently self-diagnosing or self-IDing.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 21/03/2023 15:08

@JarByTheDoor I did not know that (one of the perils of self-diagnosis is that you don't get as much info as you should (but don't always) get from a medical professional). So far I have survived the odd g-f pizza base, but had a nasty reaction to a bean-based wrap. I hardly ever put uneaten expensive food in the bin, but made an exception for that. Up until now I've been scrutinising the labels of everything except gluten-free food - seems I have to extend that!

btw, in spite of what the GP said, my asthma was mild - but going wheat free resolved other minor inflammatory reactions as well as the cough.

JarByTheDoor · 21/03/2023 14:14

@FrostyFifi thank you! It's a really hard area to talk about while being fair and even-handed to everyone involved, because it's far more complex in some ways (though less politically fraught) than the sex/gender stuff. There are many more grey areas.

Self-diagnosis is an ordinary part of everyday life in some ways — we're all generally perfectly happy to diagnose and treat ourselves for a cold, athlete's foot, and many other minor illnesses, and are urged to do so by the NHS.

It's extremely common to have a disorder but not [yet] have the professional diagnosis.

It's common for even professionals to be unsure of diagnosis.

There are fuzzy areas of different-but-similar, like @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry with her wheat reaction. (Tho Dean, I'm assuming you're already aware of this, but I feel the need to say in case no-one has mentioned it to you: please be careful because not all GF food is wheat free, and if you have wheat allergy you can still react to gluten-free wheat starch. Seems to turn up quite often in GF pizza bases for some reason. I have asthma too and know how frightening it can be, which is why I'm being over-cautious telling you something you probably already know.)

@Shelefttheweb oh definitely, OCD as a diagnosis really suffers from this problem — I only didn't include it because I don't have OCD myself. I have some very close family members with diagnosed OCD, and have stayed on psychiatric wards alongside OCD sufferers, and have seen what a horrendous impact it can have on people's lives. The misconceptions and trivialisations turn one of the most potentially destructive mental disorders into a joke illness.

Grammarnut · 21/03/2023 11:43

turbonerd · 20/03/2023 20:36

No, I know. But then you’ll have a slightly different number of great/great/great grandparents.

True. You only have to look at the Hapsburg dynasty to see the consequences. And Philip II of Spain married his sororal niece (legal to do so with a dispensation) and had children with her.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 21/03/2023 09:58

There have been recent diagnoses of ASD and ADHD in the youngest generation on both sides of my family that have made me look at various older people (including myself) and think 'hmmm'. But mostly to think that being neurotypical, (whatever that is, who can really say?) is probably a weird minority condition in itself and that rather than banging square pegs into round holes via medicalisation, we need to find ways to make it easier for neurodiverse people to flourish as and where they are, and tolerate oddness.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/03/2023 09:50

@RedToothBrush I think that's a very valid viewpoint. That people might be put off getting assessed because of 'bandwagon jumpers' is sad but understandable. All the best to you and your familyFlowers.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2023 09:37

Re fashionable diagnosis. DS is currently being assessed. His last school report reads exactly like his father's at the same age. There isn't anyone I know who, has met DH who thinks he is anything but ADHD. He had so many problems at school, including with the police, and only escaped expulsion because he was so clever and was at a school that desperately needed his marked to make them look better (the Head teacher said this to him as a teenager).

As it goes having read into ADHD as a result of DS, it would make perfect sense of my mental health problems and two breakdowns at work. I know there is almost certainly an undiagnosed history of either autism or ADHD on my Dad's side of the family. (My brother is trans, my uncle lives with his mum aged 47 and is obsessed with football scores, my grandfather was a recluse who we didn't see since I was a child and refused to see even my Dad at times in his later life - despite no falling out. He had a history of not being able to hold a job down because he kept falling out with people).

DH thinks I need to go through the process of getting a diagnosis, but after my previous dealings with mental health teams which have been completely useless (team "we can only do telephone assessments" DH "so how does that work, when she gets so worked up and terrified that she can't speak which is on her notes" team "oh well tough we only do telephone assessments), and a pathological fear of doctors I'm somewhat reluctant. What's putting me off even more is the fact it's now trendy. I don't feel I'll get taken seriously and will be dismissed as I have been previously. We've had a chat and said that we will see how the first stage of DSs assessment goes and whether he is going to be progressed - simply because I think it would help present a reputable case for me.

My point is that I think that the 'trendy diagnosis/ self diagnosis' thing risks putting people who perhaps need help off just as much as it might encourage people to come forward. Especially knowing the cost / length of waiting lists for it as a result of a whole new industry springing up.

I think in ten years time there's likely to be much more progress and the situation will have settled down but the whole trendy thing couldnt have come at a worse time for my family. I think it's a barrier rather than something helpful.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/03/2023 09:20

IcakethereforeIam · Yesterday 10:25
Yup, if they get what they say they want, they'll kill what they actually want.

🤩

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2023 09:13

Barbecuebeans · 21/03/2023 07:55

Apparently they get out of that conundrum by saying it's down to internalised transphobia which makes it impossible to have a relationship with another TW.

So 'internalised transphobia' in transwomen is ok but I'm guessing 'internalised transphobia' in women who have been sexually abused and lesbians is not ok.

Right ok.

How come they don't have to 'reframe their trauma'?

Asking for a Scottish friend.

Shelefttheweb · 21/03/2023 08:45

JarByTheDoor not so trendy (probably because it is overdone) but another is OCD. There are even TV programmes of ‘how I use my OCD to clean other people’s houses’. OCD is not just liking cleaning. Those who need to clean due to ‘contamination’ are obsessed by thoughts that bad things will happen if they don’t. They don’t just pass the duster round either - they clean one spot for an hour then come back to do it again, and again. Some end up unable to leave their room as so afraid of contamination. If they manage to get free of it there is no way they would pander to it by cleaning other people’s houses. My niece has OCD, she can spend hours trying to get something right - like her hairbrush on the dressing table. And those hours are very much not fun for her! And no the rest of her room isn’t tidy. Tidy is not the point, it needs to be right.

OP posts:
FrostyFifi · 21/03/2023 08:20

@JarByTheDoor Amazing post, thank you. I have an adult ASD diagnoses and you've described my thoughts with far more eloquence and also kindness and understanding than I could manage.

CatSpeakForDummies · 21/03/2023 08:13

"Where are the trans girls (is.boys) then. Have they been put in with the girls?"

The school I'm talking about is a primary, so it's only groups of girls developing gender identities so far. This is the first year there have been multiple "boys," last year there were some NBs, but they just went in with the other girls.

RosaBonheur · 21/03/2023 08:05

Barbecuebeans · 21/03/2023 07:55

Apparently they get out of that conundrum by saying it's down to internalised transphobia which makes it impossible to have a relationship with another TW.

How convenient.

Barbecuebeans · 21/03/2023 07:55

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2023 13:05

What do you mean? Lesbians don't do dick?

The irony.

Apparently they get out of that conundrum by saying it's down to internalised transphobia which makes it impossible to have a relationship with another TW.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 21/03/2023 07:46

Or that their hairstyle and clothes should provide an access ticket to spaces reserved for the other sex.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 21/03/2023 07:38

I discovered by accident that I have an allergy to standard wheat (not spelt, weirdly), after having a chronic cough for years (GP - oh, asthma, take these steroids) that cleared up completely during a week off carbs, and roared back with the first mouthful of pasta.

I'm grateful for the existence of so much gluten free food these days, even though I'm not coeliac (afaik). My diagnosis was a self diagnosis, but it has transformed my life.

I still don't believe people can change sex, or that a person's sex should limit what they wear or what hairstyle they have.

RosaBonheur · 21/03/2023 07:35

spirit20 · 20/03/2023 22:27

Exactly this. We had a trans boy on a school trip to Spain last summer who kicked up a major fuss when told they wouldn't be allowed share a room with boys. The entire argument was all about what would make that person feel comfortable and no recognition of the 2-4 other people who would be incredibly uncomfortable as a result.

That's par for the course in this debate.

People in positions of power confidently saying "trans women are women and should be allowed to use the facilities where they feel safe and comfortable".

The idea that women - the female kind - should be allowed to feel safe and comfortable is not even entertained. Because not believing that humans can change sex is bigoted and bigots don't deserve to feel safe or comfortable.

SinnerBoy · 21/03/2023 06:09

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · Yesterday 15:32

Not sure if you are white or just a race traitor, but wow!

Why are you using a white supremacist trope? It means a white person who takes a partner of another ethnic background.

Datdamndamp · 20/03/2023 22:43

IcakethereforeIam · 20/03/2023 11:56

I was thinking of a few years ago when people were self diagnosing as being gluten/lactose/whatever intolerant/allergic. Which must have been a pain for anyone trying to cater for them. It had an upside though of massively widening the choice of suitable foods for genuine sufferers. The improvements in food labelling and awareness will also have been brilliant for those with genuine needs, possibly sometimes lifesaving.

I'd like to think that this latest fashion would also help to improve provision for people with genuine needs. Unfortunately, I think it's more likely that what limited provision there already is will be swamped by people with no real need for it. Perhaps with a side order of an increase in skepticism as to whether or not you are actually a sufferer.

I suspect there was an element of people saying they are gluten intolerant because the reality, " it makes me fart loads", might be unprofessional in a work setting.

I can clear an office in the afternoon if I have a sandwich at lunch but not imagining for a second that's on a par with bring a coeliac. 😁

spirit20 · 20/03/2023 22:27

Backstreets · 20/03/2023 10:25

Haha, amazing!

You won't catch me defending teen boys on the regular but they 100% deserve privacy and dignity, too. I can imagine for a lot of boys going through puberty it's mortifying enough changing in front of others as it is, imagine doing it in front of a cohort of "trans boys".

Exactly this. We had a trans boy on a school trip to Spain last summer who kicked up a major fuss when told they wouldn't be allowed share a room with boys. The entire argument was all about what would make that person feel comfortable and no recognition of the 2-4 other people who would be incredibly uncomfortable as a result.

JarByTheDoor · 20/03/2023 22:23

ZombieMumEB · 20/03/2023 11:36

These days you don't even need to self harm - I am seeing more and more posts online about people who "identify" as disabled.

About 6ish years ago, it was very common for people to say they were quirky, possibly on the autism spectrum - yet they had no formal diagnosis. They jumped on the bandwagon, as those with actual ASD were raising awareness and finally getting the support they needed.

I knew so many people IRL or online, who adopted the quirky ASD (non) diagnosis. Now it's gone out of fashion, these people no longer identify as ASD. They are now queer. Who knows what they will self-identify as in the future.

Ugh. I've been cursed to have fashionable disorders for some reason. The problems that can be caused by people identifying into them are in some ways quite different to the problems of "gender" self-ID, but I think they do have some similarities (TL;DR at foot of post).

This is probably going to sound judgemental as fuck to some of those who haven't experienced people identifying into problems they themselves have experience of, and to those who prefer to always accept this kind of identifying-in and self-diagnosis, but if someone finds something in here offensive, please know that the people I'm referring to are probably not the people you're taking offense on behalf of.

I have current medical diagnoses of:

— ASD: this is not only apparently considered by TikTok teens (or young people using whatever they're on instead of Tumblr now) to be a diagnosis which can be legitimately identified into , but also by most online autistic communities at the moment, for complex reasons.

(I'm not going to go into the debate about the rearrangement of autism into a single category and the possible effects of that, as it's outside the scope of my already extremely long post, except to say this: here I'm mostly talking about the possible impacts of self-IDers and self-dxers on autistic people whose autism presents like mine — i.e. not always easy for the layperson to recognise as being the result of a neurodevelopmental disability — because that's the only situation I have experience of, not because I think there's no effect on other autistic people.)

I do understand that competent assessment can be difficult or sometimes impossible to obtain, be very expensive, involve long waits and intrusive or upsetting processes, or result in a diagnosis that once official could potentially affect your future options, and that if you don't have access to clinicians with the right kind of expertise, your ASD may be missed. But without objective professional opinion I don't think anyone should be outright saying they are autistic.

It's a medical diagnosis of a neurodevelopmental disorder, one which for some people can result in profound disability and intensive lifelong care needs, and saying you have ASD or are autistic should mean that you've been given that diagnosis professionally IMO.

It's especially irritating when those who are not only self-IDing, but also wouldn't want assessment if offered (and may even believe ASD shouldn't be in the category of "things that can be diagnosed by a professional"), start banging on about how it's not a disability, which the public may take to mean that people like me don't need the little help we get.

In social contexts it's not necessary to lay claim to the actual diagnosis (and it seems kinda dishonest in medical, work or official contexts) — you don't tend to see people being not taken seriously, or not welcomed into the autistic community, when they've been honest and said they don't [yet] have a diagnosis but believe/suspect/are sure they're autistic. We're catching up on several generations of undiagnosed autistics going by current diagnostic criteria; there must be millions out there, so it makes sense to accept and welcome undiagnosed people who suspect they are autistic. I was left undiagnosed until my late 20s, because 15 years earlier, when medical attitudes were only just beginning to change, an old-fashioned psychiatrist blocked my proposed assessment because I understood irony.

Unfortunately, since many autistic people recognise these diagnostic difficulties and want to be welcoming and helpful to those without diagnoses, and because many autistic people do find the neurodiversity and demedicalisation paradigms attractive, autistic groups are wide open to all self-IDers and self-diagnosers, particularly online (in IRL groups I see it less). Alongside those with diagnoses and those who simply happen to be currently undiagnosed, there have been increasing numbers of people who don't have diagnoses and TBH don't really seem to fit, who have swamped some online spaces, and it's changed the atmosphere and focus IMO. Some groups will, for example, jump heavily on any social faux pas around this whole area (and other identity areas), which is… not ideal. I don't use online autistic spaces any more — most stopped feeling like familiar places.

And it's not only that there's a lot of self-ID and self-diagnosing (almost two distinct groups, the former more likely to be extremist neurodiversity and demedicalisation advocates who may believe ASD is not a disability); ASD is also a popular one to armchair-diagnose in others. That can be even more irritating, especially when the diagnosee seems indistinguishable from someone just being an arsehole, or is exhibiting behaviour within the normal range, or when it just seems like those two people are not a good combo.

Neither those jumping to autism as an explanation of behaviour they don't like when they're not qualified to diagnose (and much about the situation doesn't seem to fit well anyway), nor those self-IDing without much evidence and demanding special treatment and/or to be treated as an autism spokesperson, are doing much for public perception of autistic people IMO.

I'm not convinced identifying as autistic has gone out of fashion as such, but it's losing ground online to:

— ADHD: some similar self-diagnosis and self-ID issues to ASD, and a similar set of coexisting problems around the genuine large numbers of undiagnosed people who would meet criteria if assessed. I think its popularity as a (sometimes spurious, usually overconfident) self-diagnosis-stated-as-fact has been strongly ramping up over the last year or two, alongside a strong awareness campaign about adult ADHD.

The self-diagnosis of ADHD seems, even more than ASD, to be taking on a flavour of "thing that people sometimes outright say they have despite having no diagnosis, but often without a lot of the struggles that people with the diagnosis contend with, or that appear to only pop up when convenient". There also seems to be a lower threshold of difference/struggling with life stuff for people to start feeling comfortable outright claiming ADHD as fact, compared to ASD.

Again, I have no problem with people saying they suspect or believe they have ADHD, saying they find the tools and techniques useful, or joining communities (assuming they frame it something like "my probable ADHD" or whatever), as this is another one that I was adult-diagnosed with, so I can empathize with that situation.

— Bipolar disorder: this suffers the multiple-whammy of, firstly, popular choice for self-diagnosis (often seemingly dubiously — though self-ID per se happens less, as it's rarely argued to be as much of an "identity" thing as ASD) and occasional exculpatory get-out clause, secondly, insult or slur, thirdly, occasional target for armchair diagnosis, and lastly, a pre-existing huge public misunderstanding of what it actually entails.

Like with ASD and ADHD, these things perpetuate real public confusion about what it might mean for someone (and the people around them) if they have this diagnosis, and they undermine public perception of the diagnosis, how serious or genuine a problem it is, and whether someone who says they have it is likely to genuinely be someone with a serious psychotic/mood disorder. I've never come across anyone with diagnosed bipolar disorder in the UK whose life wasn't very seriously impacted by it, and can't think of any who expected to be able to act how they liked and use their diagnosis as an excuse.

Of course, like ASD and ADHD, there are a lot of people out there who will later come to have a diagnosis of bipolar disorder that fits their symptoms but who aren't yet diagnosed, and a lot who remain misdiagnosed all their lives. Bipolar UK give an average of 9½ years between first presenting to a doctor with bipolar disorder symptoms, and receiving a bipolar disorder diagnosis, with an average of 3½ misdiagnoses, adding that some research suggests over half those in the UK with bipolar disorder are undiagnosed.

So I can see that there will naturally be lots of people out there without a diagnosis who (correctly) suspect or believe they have it, but a lot of the self-diagnosis feels incredibly dodgy and the things some self-diagnosed "bipolar" people say about their "bipolar" seem to be based on misconceptions, inability to objectively see oneself, lack of professional ability to interpret criteria or of experience seeing what bipolar disorder looks like, or occasionally (sorry) attention-seeking or self-serving excuses. By no means all of them, of course; many will have other mental illnesses that are less well-known, or which are more… undesirable, for want of a better word.

If you have bipolar disorder or suspect you do, this means that looking for support online from a community of people dealing with similar psychiatric issues to you is more difficult, as there are so many people stating they have bipolar disorder whose experiences don't really fit, though again, I've not found this to (yet) be the case in real-world support groups.

— Coeliac disease: okay, people don't usually self-diagnose with or self-identify as this by name, or believe themselves to actually have coeliac disease — and there's also the non-coeliac gluten sensitivity thing to consider, which is debated but which I don't want to touch here — but there was also a massive surge in gluten-free diets being promoted for other reasons, and people deciding it might be a good idea to try avoiding gluten to lose weight or for nebulous indeterminate health reasons or because other people were doing it, which is obviously entirely their choice to make, and of course they weren't trying to muscle in on a medical diagnosis. But I think maybe gluten-free becoming fashionable was a bit of a double-edged sword for coeliacs.

Great in that it led to a much wider range of gluten-free foods being available than would be economic to supply for coeliacs alone (though I think the trendiness is definitely on the wane, and GF seems to be having to shuffle up for plant-based).

Not so good in that, for example, for most of those avoiding gluten, it didn't in reality matter if there was a bit of gluten in their food, so all kinds of things (e.g. cakes in a cafe sharing a cake-slice with gluteny cakes) started to get labelled as gluten-free, which weren't, but would sell well; people saw others on "gluten-free" diets who didn't mind cross-contamination, and might well assume that that must be fine for other gluten-free people too; or people heard about those on GF diets sometimes doing things like "cheating" on pudding after insisting on an arduously-prepared cross-contamination-free gluten-free main, and might start to feel avoiding cross-contamination for those requesting gluten-free food was a waste of extra effort.

Basically, I think the words "gluten free" became a bit of a joke, because they got attached to a kind of stereotype of a dietary fashion-follower who enjoys kicking up a fuss and getting attention for their fad health kicks. There were times over the past few years where the topic of a person asking for gluten-free food was the target of endless mocking jokes — a person playing at having dietary restrictions, getting all the "benefits" of feeling special and getting attention [shudder argh] but without going through real deficiency disorders, social exclusion, gastrointestinal distress, or lack of choice on extra restrictions and costs. The jokes weren't aimed at coeliacs, but I still sometimes feel self-conscious even mentioning gluten 🤣

Probably very few of the non-coeliac (and non-NCGS) gluten-avoiders were, or are, anything like attention-seeking pisstakers — GF became such a big market that anyone like that must've been quite a small minority. I'm sure lots were just trying something out, or for some reason feel/felt more comfortable with not eating large amounts of gluten.

— Migraine: this is a slightly petty one. People seem to have been calling their non-migraine headaches migraines to communicate severity forever. But severe headaches aren't necessarily migraines, and migraines aren't necessarily severe (or even painful at all). And not all migraine headaches feel like you'd think migraine headaches would feel.

I don't know that this is particularly harmful, but it is a bit annoying sometimes Grin

To me, the potential similarities to cross-sex identification seem to be:

  • entering spaces that weren't intended for you, thereby changing them so they no longer meet the original group's needs, and making people feel unable to specify
  • amplifying inaccurate stereotypes about the group you're identifying into
  • using resources set aside for the benefit of those who are affected by issues linked to their membership of that group
  • general public confusion about what being a member of that group actually means and what the criteria are
  • expanding the group to include people who don't experience certain core features, meaning that discriminating against that feature is no longer seen as discriminating against the group, and meaning that those who are able to succeed at x in part because they lack that feature are inauthentically held up as examples of members of that group succeeding at x
  • there could be lots of different reasons someone identifies into a group, and you don't need to be intending to cause harm to the group you're identifying into in order to be causing harm
  • probably lots of others I've missed.

(My apologies for the length of this post; when I don't sleep at all and then take stimulants, I get way more verbose than usual and also find it much harder than usual to edit down. I tried, I swear…)