Residential trips

Wasn’t there something at one point where if you told staff about your sexual assault or discussed how you were sexually abused then they might be able to magic up a single sex space? Presumably only if the intimate details of your abuse garnered sufficient sympathy though.

If it's run by YHA then their policy states"Transgender guests are welcome to stay in the dormitory which corresponds to the gender with which they identify"

This is the reason me and my daughter cancelled our plans to travel the UK last year. If we couldn't get a private room I would have booked a girls dorm and felt ok till I saw this

Thank you for pushing this OP, zealots must not be allowed to jettison everything we know about safeguarding children because they want to be seen as 'with it' or can't be arsed with the extremist backlash.

We need to be a bigger headache to orgs than the gender identity proponents so that it is easier for them to do the right thing than capitulate.

Op present all your evidence, join the Free Speech Union, seek legal advice, find out about insurance coverage, raise a grievance and if the school still wants to make the girls' accommodation mixed sex, follow the whistleblowing procedures (assuming this is a thing in education? ).

If they insist on going ahead, I would withdraw from the trip and go to the papers. Any school failing so badly at basic safeguarding deserves to be on the front page of the Daily Mail imo.

A really good point.

Absolutely all women and girls of any faith or none should be able to say no. But some people care about not being seen to be racist whilst acting in a racist, ablist and misogynistic way.

Another possible hypothetical (I assume the male staff aren't allowed into the girls' dorms and vice versa?) What happens if the trans pupil has an accident in the dorm while in a state of undress, such as slipping and falling in the shower? Are you or the other female staff member supposed to deal with this, or would a male member of staff have to? In any other circumstances I can't imagine it being appropriate for you to have to with a male pupil of this age, and it leaves you as staff members open to all sorts of reputational risks.

Insurance is a good point
But the main argument has to be like the toilets the dorms are either 'gender neutral' or single sex they cannot be both.
What happens if the next trans person is an Isla Bryson?

I do hate the idea that Muslim and Jews seem to have additional rights to say no, yet in an traditionally Christian country, Christians are poo pooed, as Bible Bashers if they stand up and say no. And if your an atheist then for get it your meant to suck it up.

I don't think the girls consent or lack of it is at all relevant either morally or in law - and for good reason as children can be coerced / bullied more easily than adults. The girls can't consent to many things as they are underage. This is why statutory rape is a thing.

There have been several scenarios through the years where my children's schools have said 'the insurance doesn't cover X, Y or Z'. I'm 100% sure the insurance won't cover pregnancy as a result of statutory rape from deliberately housing underage boys with underage girls.

Write it all down, the risks and reasons for and against. One side will be a long list.

And don't ask the girls how they feel about it, they will be pressured and can't consent on behalf of others.

I'm betting the schools insurer will say a flat no to males in female spaces particularly if the other parents have not given consent.

Make sure the insurer is consulted.

Go to the school 's insurer and see if they are covered for this.

Money always wins

@nilsmousehammer my understanding of the EA2010 is that “reasonable adjustments” only relate to removing barriers for disabled people not to the other 8 protected characteristics.

@JustFuckOffPlease No child can hold a GRC, so their legal sex is always the same as their biological sex. Single Sex Spaces are legally permitted.

For the risk assessment school facilitating sexual abuse, rape, paraphillia’s such as voyeurism, exhibitionism (Riley Gains evidence about Lia Thomas) etc. and potential for pregnancy and STIs.

It is reasonable not to force a child to sleep in a space they would be deeply concerned about their privacy and dignity in. It is equally reasonable to require the child to extend to others the same concern for privacy and dignity.

Yes. And this is what the equality act advocates for.

'A proportionate means to a legitimate aim.'

And interesting nils about the prospect of being a daily Mail headline was a safeguarding test. An fairly instant focusing of the mind!

It is going to become a necessary access and inclusion thing for residential centres to begin to provide small single rooms for children whose identities present an issue to dormitories. That is a cost they will have to pick up to be able to take bookings from schools, it's a common enough problem now and they are the ones who have to provide accessible accommodation.

The emphasis is reasonable adjustments (or should be). It is reasonable not to force a child to sleep in a space they would be deeply concerned about their privacy and dignity in. It is equally reasonable to require the child to extend to others the same concern for privacy and dignity. A child with a known identity need can be provided with a safe alternative: but it will have to be a choice between same sex dormitory or single space of their own.

Third spaces, third spaces, third spaces and the parents of the child needing third spaces should pay for the cost of this.

Residential trips are not a human right nor a given. Many times in my DDs secondary school they do a lottery as oversubscribed, lots of children lose out. If they feel uncomfortable with safeguarding arrangements, they don't have to go.

They will be discriminating against the other children if they allow a biological male in with the girls. I would bet a lot of money on there being many girls in that group who actually don't want to share, but are scared of saying so. Regardless, if the children are under 18 it's not their decision to make. I'm also betting a lot of money the other parents would not consent to mixed sex overnight spaces.

If this happened to my child and she got pregnant or sexually assaulted, I would sue the school. If she got pregnant and kept the baby I would be suing the school for the full cost of keeping the child they had failed to prevent through proper safeguarding (until 18). I would go all the way and I would go to national media once I could (consider legal requirements).

Definitely get the school's insurance company involved with this decision. The lowest risk option has to be a third space.

Eugh, pass up the food chain to the safeguarding lead but make a point it is perfectly legal to separate by sex in this situation.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi6lMfp5uf9AhUjSkEAHX-RAz0QFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw037sJzDd0S-DvC3n_hqbA_

@foodfiend are you able to say what happened in the end with your school? Your post in this thread with the potential scenarios was v helpful.

Definitely talk about this in terms of single sex/mixed sex sleeping accommodation. This child is requesting that some of the sleeping accommodation becomes mixed sex.

Also what about the toilet/showers? Which ones is he expecting to use?

Just reading through foodfiend's thread from last year.

"This whole approach relies upon everyone pretending that they really believe A is female to protect A's feelings/ and magic away any safeguarding concerns"

This was what I meant by 'denying the child is male' - it seems to be where it ends up. You could make the point that they are therefore denying the child is trans (as well as outright lying that they are female). I doubt it would have much sway reading the Stonewall non-safeguarding non-policy in the other thread though...

A child having a room in the adults section, puts them and any adult into a firing line as it reduces their boundaries and puts the adults at risk of an accusation.

We have safeguarding and single sex spaces for reasons. These reasons do not disappear because one child decides it.