Should IVF be available to lesbians?

To go on a slight tangent. When I hear of people who have used donors because of their fertility problems, their words are always couched in gratitude at these acts of kindness, that someone else altruistically donated their gametes and they get to be parents.

The “equal fertility rights” brigade seem to show no such gratitude towards those who allowed them to become parents. It comes across as utterly entitled - ‘if straight people get donors we have the right to get donors too’. It was never anyone’s right in the first place. There’s a real shift in thinking.

🙄Yes, YOU HAVE read it wrong.

I don't think fertility is a right.

There is something ethically dubious about calling things which are actually wants, wishes, results of good fortune or acts of kindness “rights”.

The phrase “equal fertility rights” exposes some ethically dubious demands when you unpack it.

This is addressing @YetAnotherSpartacus

Also, some of us think access to another person’s body or gametes is not a “right” and to call a person’s wish to access to another person’s body or gametes their “right” to access them, is a line that, once crossed, leaves us wide open to serious human rights abuses, such as surrogacy, prostitution and organ harvesting, where one person feels entitled to ‘use’ another person’s body.

But straight couples who can’t conceive are ‘biologically’ infertile.

I disagree. A straight couple who can't conceive are medically infertile. The biology isn't the issue, it's that for whatever reason things aren't working as they should.

I think any person, male or female, gay, lesbian or heterosexual, should have their infertility treated and that it should be available on the NHS.

That's a different thing to needing assisted conception because you are in a same sex relationship. With the limited resource of the NHS I can't see a case for including non-medical needs, I'm afraid.

Some posters don’t think IVF should be funded by the NHS for anyone
Some think IVF is bad
Some think gamete donation is bad and should not be allowed
Some think there must be proven infertility before NHS funded treatment - not just not having a ready supply of sperm
Many think having a child is not a right, however difficult the alternative is to come to terms with.

I haven’t seen anyone say it should be denied based on sexual orientation.

What have read specifically though that indicates to you that ‘feminists [are] really denying lesbian women fertility treatment based on their sexual orientation’? It’s been explained umpteen times on the thread that any woman with fertility problems is entitled to treatment for those problems on the NHS. The difficulty for lesbian couples and straight heterosexual women is that the lack of a man in the equation means a lack of sperm. A woman lacking sperm to conceive with is not a fertility problem.

So you mean on the NHS or private?
For a first child or subsequent?
For more than one attempt?

IVF should be available for all those who need it, regardless of their sexual orientation. Whether it should be free for everyone, for several attempts, is a different question - and there are already guidelines in place that cover this iirr.

Recent posts. Hopefully, I have simply misunderstood.

Where have you seen that on this thread?

Sorry, are feminists really denying lesbian women fertility treatment based on their sexual orientation? Or have I read this wrong? I hope I have.

‘I don't see the difference between a fertile lesbian and an infertile heterosexual woman. Both are asking for treatment because they want a baby and can't have one for whatever reason’ ???! If the infertile heterosexual woman is successfully treated and the problem with her fertility can be resolved then by having sex with her partner she can conceive. A lesbian can have sex with their partner till the cows come home, conception will never be the result.

I don't see the difference between a fertile lesbian and an infertile heterosexual woman.

Interesting. Do you see a difference in who their partner is and the role they play in fertilisation?

The choice is simple. It's either available to all, or none. I don't see the difference between a fertile lesbian and an infertile heterosexual woman. Both are asking for treatment because they want a baby and can't have one for whatever reason. Both will need different treatment routes depending on their situation. It doesn't really matter why, but you've got 2 women asking for help to have a baby, and a long list of reasons, no surprise there, why the lesbian should pay and the heterosexual woman shouldn't.

You had a medical problem which would probably have worsened and perhaps caused greater problems if left untreated. Your medical problem was treated. If that was the extent of the treatment you had it’s a massive stretch to say you had assisted conception.

It isn’t though, believing god said marriage is between a man and a woman is an act of faith. Two women cannot create a baby together because of the facts of human biology.

Whatever the rules are they should be the same for everybody.

Surrogacy should be banned.

IVF should be available to anyone who wants it. Publically funded IVF should only be for those who have fertility issues.

Assisted conception is much more than just IVF. It includes IUI, medication and procedures such as surgical sperm removal.

To access assisted conception as a straight couple you have to have been trying naturally for 12 months. Then it's a postcode lottery as to what is available.

Lesbian and single women have not had to jump through that hoop as ... well... they can't. By the same logic though, they could be very fertile and just not 'tested it'. Being single or lesbian does not make you medically infertile.

To make it fair, I suppose you could require single and lesbian women to have tried IUI or informal artificial insemination for 12 months before being tested for fertility.