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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Thoughts on Calvin Robinson?

292 replies

meatbasedbreakfast · 15/03/2023 17:01

Long time lurker, stepping out the darkness to ask this.

Was asked today by a friend who knows I'm GC what my thoughts are on Calvin Robinson. Apparently he's becoming a face of GC views?!

I was shocked. He is anti abortion (in all cases), doesn't think same sex marriage should be legal, and isn't a feminist in any sense of the word.

I'm genuinely concerned that our movement is being picked up by people like him, who couldn't care less about women. When he says biological sex is real, he couldn't give a damn about how that leads to discrimination/violence. It made my blood boil and I want to know what other people think.

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twitterexile · 19/03/2023 15:40

Crack on with your homework frazzledali it's school tomorrow.

TheBiologyStupid · 19/03/2023 15:05

frazzledali · 19/03/2023 14:23

If you get into bed with a load of prats with horrible beliefs because they agree with your cause, then you have to lie in that bed. That includes him and all the Nazis etc who love your causes and we all see you. You can't pick and choose and saying you think you can doesn't convince anyone on the outside of your cult.

In that case TRAs are in bed with the Christian right, who also have burned Harry Potter books, and with the Nazis, who liked to burn books they disapproved of, too.

Or doesn't guilt by association work like that?

LangClegsInSpace · 19/03/2023 14:47

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 13:28

I think society changes a lot. I'm 70, I remember when a girl who got pregnant was a pariah, parents were ashamed, it was the thing parents seemed to dread most for their daughters. The pill came along, abortion was legalised, we got the swinging 60s. It was a world my parents and grandparents found quite shocking.

Here we are when who blinks an eye at a single woman getting pregnant, who thinks parents should pack their pregnant teenager off to a home, pretend they are visiting their gran and then have the baby adopted.

Haven't heard of any homosexuals getting locked up recently.

When my husband was a young policeman he remembers waiting at the hospital to arrest someone who had attempted suicide.

They can't sack you for being pregnant.

So yes I've seen society change massively in my 70 years.

But you are a member of a church that is opposed to contraception and abortion, and that views homosexual acts as a sin and opposes same sex marriage.

Your church also will not ordain women, partly because of what Paul said in I Corinthians:

34 women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part, as the Law itself says.

35 If there is anything they want to know, they should ask their husbands at home: it is shameful for a woman to speak in the assembly.

and in I Timothy:

9 Similarly, women are to wear suitable clothes and to be dressed quietly and modestly, without braided hair or gold and jewellery or expensive clothes;

10 their adornment is to do the good works that are proper for women who claim to be religious.

11 During instruction, a woman should be quiet and respectful.

12 I give no permission for a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. A woman ought to be quiet,

13 because Adam was formed first and Eve afterwards,

14 and it was not Adam who was led astray but the woman who was led astray and fell into sin.

15 Nevertheless, she will be saved by child-bearing, provided she lives a sensible life and is constant in faith and love and holiness.

I'm sure your priest is lovely and and your mum's priest was lovely (NAPALT? 😂) but how can you not see the hypocrisy here?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 19/03/2023 14:41

frazzledali · 19/03/2023 14:23

If you get into bed with a load of prats with horrible beliefs because they agree with your cause, then you have to lie in that bed. That includes him and all the Nazis etc who love your causes and we all see you. You can't pick and choose and saying you think you can doesn't convince anyone on the outside of your cult.

Heavens, did I get into bed with this chappie and I don’t remember?

my memory really isn’t what it was

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 14:40

frazzledali · 19/03/2023 14:23

If you get into bed with a load of prats with horrible beliefs because they agree with your cause, then you have to lie in that bed. That includes him and all the Nazis etc who love your causes and we all see you. You can't pick and choose and saying you think you can doesn't convince anyone on the outside of your cult.

You can't pick and choose who agrees with you, correct. But that doesn't make them your responsibility.

If CR agrees with me about gender ideology, that doesn't make me responsible for him or answerable for any of his other beliefs.

If gender ideologists are agreed with by a bunch of paedophile and rapists, should we hold you to account for those people's actions?

No idea what nazis you're on about, though.

LangClegsInSpace · 19/03/2023 14:35

MalagaNights · 19/03/2023 10:43

Calvin is an unusually (in the current times) conservative and traditional Christian.

95% of the population wouldn't align with many of his views (that may be lower actually as strangely many Muslims would!).

The number of extremely traditional conservative Christians who are gender critical feminists is probably 0? Or there abouts, so it's odd to demand of feminists they explain his brand of traditional bible based Christianity to you.

The difference in approaches on this thread isn't between people who agree with Calvin and people who disagree, it's between people who believe he has a right to his views and that they don't automatically make him 'a prick' and those who decide to personally attack people who think differently.

Yes, well said.

frazzledali · 19/03/2023 14:23

If you get into bed with a load of prats with horrible beliefs because they agree with your cause, then you have to lie in that bed. That includes him and all the Nazis etc who love your causes and we all see you. You can't pick and choose and saying you think you can doesn't convince anyone on the outside of your cult.

Shelefttheweb · 19/03/2023 14:01

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 13:28

I think society changes a lot. I'm 70, I remember when a girl who got pregnant was a pariah, parents were ashamed, it was the thing parents seemed to dread most for their daughters. The pill came along, abortion was legalised, we got the swinging 60s. It was a world my parents and grandparents found quite shocking.

Here we are when who blinks an eye at a single woman getting pregnant, who thinks parents should pack their pregnant teenager off to a home, pretend they are visiting their gran and then have the baby adopted.

Haven't heard of any homosexuals getting locked up recently.

When my husband was a young policeman he remembers waiting at the hospital to arrest someone who had attempted suicide.

They can't sack you for being pregnant.

So yes I've seen society change massively in my 70 years.

But sex outside marriage was hardly unknown in the Roman Empire around 0 AD/BC, and homosexuality was very much part of Roman and Greek culture of the day. Paul’s directions were to go against society/culture. I am not sure how saying ‘society has different views to Paul on this’ is different now to what it was then. If you don’t agree with Paul then you don’t agree, but it seems rather dishonest to say ‘we believe in the Bible but are going to make all these changes to make it fit in with how our current society thinks’. Perhaps that is why the CoE is losing members - it is trying too hard to change to fit society that it loses the point of its existence.

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 13:54

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 13:20

I'm not sure why I'd take it up with the Ephesians, they didn't write the letter.

He didn't say it works both ways with submitting though. He's not my priest so I don't actually care about how he preaches the bible but for people to defend him and say he isn't a misogynist is odd to me as what he is preaching is misogynistic.

Well, as I've said, I'm not religious. I'm also not Calvin Robinson. Why don't you take it up with him?

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 13:28

Shelefttheweb · 19/03/2023 12:31

The bible was written along time ago when society was very different,

This seems an odd complaint - the whole of the Bible is about how living God’s way is different from society’s expectations at that times. The whole thing is about going against the prevailing culture. You couldn’t be more counter-cultural at that time than by following Jesus. I am also not convinced that society changes that much over time.

I think society changes a lot. I'm 70, I remember when a girl who got pregnant was a pariah, parents were ashamed, it was the thing parents seemed to dread most for their daughters. The pill came along, abortion was legalised, we got the swinging 60s. It was a world my parents and grandparents found quite shocking.

Here we are when who blinks an eye at a single woman getting pregnant, who thinks parents should pack their pregnant teenager off to a home, pretend they are visiting their gran and then have the baby adopted.

Haven't heard of any homosexuals getting locked up recently.

When my husband was a young policeman he remembers waiting at the hospital to arrest someone who had attempted suicide.

They can't sack you for being pregnant.

So yes I've seen society change massively in my 70 years.

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 13:20

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 10:06

I don't know, take it up with Ephesians. I did say I'm not religious myself.

To be fair to CR though, he did point out a few times that it worked both ways and that in his view husbands belong to their wives just as much as wives belong to their husbands. But if you want to pick that apart more, suggest you find a believer to talk to about it.

I'm not sure why I'd take it up with the Ephesians, they didn't write the letter.

He didn't say it works both ways with submitting though. He's not my priest so I don't actually care about how he preaches the bible but for people to defend him and say he isn't a misogynist is odd to me as what he is preaching is misogynistic.

Shelefttheweb · 19/03/2023 12:31

The bible was written along time ago when society was very different,

This seems an odd complaint - the whole of the Bible is about how living God’s way is different from society’s expectations at that times. The whole thing is about going against the prevailing culture. You couldn’t be more counter-cultural at that time than by following Jesus. I am also not convinced that society changes that much over time.

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 11:30

Yes, thank you Malaga. Completely agree with your last two posts. CR is entitled to his beliefs and while I don't agree with them, I do see them as logically coherent in the context of Christianity and I do think CR himself has integrity, and would be willing to discuss and debate his ideas with others who were in good faith.

What more can we ask from people really?

MalagaNights · 19/03/2023 10:43

Calvin is an unusually (in the current times) conservative and traditional Christian.

95% of the population wouldn't align with many of his views (that may be lower actually as strangely many Muslims would!).

The number of extremely traditional conservative Christians who are gender critical feminists is probably 0? Or there abouts, so it's odd to demand of feminists they explain his brand of traditional bible based Christianity to you.

The difference in approaches on this thread isn't between people who agree with Calvin and people who disagree, it's between people who believe he has a right to his views and that they don't automatically make him 'a prick' and those who decide to personally attack people who think differently.

MalagaNights · 19/03/2023 10:36

This thread is very odd:

Calvin Robinson is your new leader!! - err...no he's not.

He's not even religious! - err... Google him for 5 mins if you like, and you'll see he's deeply religious.

Why does he wear a cassock?? - err...we don't know, does it matter?

I don't agree with his views on marriage!! - err... fine? Then don't listen to him.

His views are different from my catholic priest 50 years ago, explain that!! - err...we are neither a Catholic priest or Calvin Robinson so can't, and also we don't care.

All the demanding we are explain Calvin's views to you is odd. Watch him and engage with him if you like but stop demanding we explain things that are nothing to do with us to you.

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 10:08

Or as a pp suggested, tweet Calvin himself.

beastlyslumber · 19/03/2023 10:06

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 09:36

Why would loving someone mean submitting to them and if it does mean that they why is it only the wife who has to submit?

I don't know, take it up with Ephesians. I did say I'm not religious myself.

To be fair to CR though, he did point out a few times that it worked both ways and that in his view husbands belong to their wives just as much as wives belong to their husbands. But if you want to pick that apart more, suggest you find a believer to talk to about it.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 19/03/2023 09:57

Sorry, is he not our leader now? I can’t keep up

I must say I do find it puzzling how confused people get by the phrase ‘gender critical’

this chap clearly loves gender. He’s never criticised it in his life

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 19/03/2023 09:55

mobile.twitter.com/calvinrobinson

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 19/03/2023 09:54

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 09:36

Why would loving someone mean submitting to them and if it does mean that they why is it only the wife who has to submit?

This is the FWR board on Mumsnet - we don’t know what goes on inside a conservative Anglican bloke’s head (although it doesn’t seem any different from the gumph I vaguely remember from Sunday school in the 1980s, but I’ve swerved church ever since, as personally think it’s all bollocks).

I think Calvin’s on Twitter - go ask him!

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 09:36

beastlyslumber · 18/03/2023 20:24

Do you? I don't know. I mean, yes, the bible could be characterised as misogynistic, but I don't think CR is coming from a place of hate. I think he genuinely believes that both men and women belong to one another in marriage. He repeatedly points out that it works both ways.

I can't get upset about this, tbh. He's entitled to his beliefs.

Why would loving someone mean submitting to them and if it does mean that they why is it only the wife who has to submit?

ancientgran · 19/03/2023 09:35

LangClegsInSpace · 19/03/2023 01:57

Yes, the Abrahamic religions are misogynistic. Is this some kind of shocking news to you?

In this case, CR is espousing bog standard conservative Christian views, based on what Ephesians actually says. Your argument here is with St Paul.

Nobody is in any doubt that CR is a conservative Christian.
Nobody ever thought he was a feminist in the first place.

'When he says biological sex is real', we agree because it's true. Unlike, for example, the Bible being the word of God.

The sky is blue, water is wet, sex is real, we're not stupid.

I'm a Catholic, was taught by nuns. No one has ever told me I need to submit to my husband.

My mother wasn't a Catholic, refused to convert but did marry in a Catholic church. When she had her second baby in a year the Parish Priest called and offered to have a word with my father about his responsibilities and told my mother that if anyone (including my father) told her the Catholic church expected her to have a large number of children they were wrong. She certainly didn't have a baby the next year, or the next, or the next and so on.

So I don't assume all religious ministers are misogynistic, not all of them were 70 years ago when I was born. Personally I wouldn't attend church if my priest spouted that sort of thing.

The bible was written along time ago when society was very different, it has been translated more than once so I don't think I have to take my lessons from St Paul.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 19/03/2023 07:33

TheBiologyStupid · 18/03/2023 18:17

Yes, heartbreaking. Still, Peter Murrell has time on his hands now...

Oh!

But Calvin has much better hair…

LangClegsInSpace · 19/03/2023 03:41

And if we're talking about misogyny then who remembers when India Willoughby went on Woman's Hour and told Jenni Murray that a woman who doesn't shave her legs is dirty?

LangClegsInSpace · 19/03/2023 02:10

beastlyslumber · 18/03/2023 17:39

I don't think he's horrible about women? He gives a bible-based view which he also applies to men.

I agree with him about porn and also about the ways in which some women seek validation online being counterproductive. Dont see what's wrong with wanting to find a partner who's not on onlyfans and doesn't sleep around - fair enough, really. Don't really agree with him on the submit to your wife/husband bit, but then I'm not religious.

He doesn't say anything to make me think he's a misogynist.

The other guy gives me the creeps, though.

The other guy gives me the creeps, though.

Yes, I have no clue who he is but he just radiates woman-hatred.

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