“Genuinely” single sex wards are not the best standard of care for all and in particular, trans and non-binary service users - survey

If that's what transmen want then they should be allowed

Since they remain female that is also an option for them

There is probably an element of that, but I suspect it is more that transitioning never solved the mental health crisis that drove them to transition in the first place. That whilst ‘gender affirming’ and the process of transitioning provides some temporary distraction, it doesn’t actually work.

I wouldn't want it to be accepted that transmen would go to an open ward.

What this might do is start a greater discussion on abuse and risk in inpatient mental health services. I just hope* that it's a discussion accepting the particular physical vulnerabilities of women and to male abuse. Not a discussion only about the overpowering importance of staff not misgendering each other and having 'awareness' of nonbinary identities.

*I don't have very much hope of this

I don't think you can have a single policy because the needs of patients vary depending on why they are accessing in patient settings. For short stays, especially emergencies and surgical, then I think patients should simply placed where there's a bed. For longer stays eg geriatric/dementia wards then single sex becomes necessary due to their needs/potential issues. For long stay situations like mental health, rehab single rooms should be used wherever possible anyway.

As most hospital wards are built with a number of bays plus side rooms, mostly it's possible to segregate anyway - and by definition gynaecology, which has its own ward here, is single sex! (Actually breast surgery shares the ward so very much a female sex zone).

If I'm in an accident and smash my leg up for instance, I really couldn't care less if there's a man in the next bed, it's just not the same as a sensitive surgery

@Laladybird sorry.

AFAB 'assigned female at birth', also known as women and girls.

DSDs - disorders of sexual development, also known as variations in secual development or VSDs. A definite category but types of disorder that are included in it are disputed.

"Open" ward for all with female only because of the biological need

Like sports

i may have stopped reading and not taken in the rest of the survey. So I'll read again :)

~ Recognise that single sex wards are not the best standard of care for all service users, in particular, trans and non-binary service users, and take steps to assess and mitigate possible negative impact.

nope.
Do you have any natal women conducting this survey?

Because all the questions are about "woe are the trans". They can have 3rd spaces. Women and men want their own single sex spaces. We have seen the side effects of transwomen being in women's wards. No. Thank. You.

What do DSD and AFAB stand for here?

I'd imagine the suicide rate of people who have medically transitioned, and who have realised they have made a monumental mistake from which there is no going back, is much higher than the suicide rate of young people who think they are trans.

THAT'S the kind of data we need to be keeping over the long term.

@Davros - that sounds very difficult. Sending you my best wishes. 💐

I think saying that these women do or don't have specific issues that could be healed by psychotherapy isn't necessarily right either. Hard to know given the fact that NHS mental health services are shredded to almost nothing. Sometimes inpatient admission is what it takes, and goodness knows there are some amazing people working in the services too. Alongside some abusers.

Mental heth presentations have a cultural element. What is going on in the culture will be represented in services too.

I note that the report's author received some replies apparently from people with DSDs, which questioned the premise of placing trans and DSDs together as the same issue. So obviously as a serious scientific researcher they left those responses out. I suppose at least they documented what they did.

And this is so bloody predictable! Realising they have been allowed or encouraged to seek irreversible damage to their previously healthy bodies. In pursuit of a delusion. Heartbreaking.

Exactly. Sometimes the needs of women and trans people will clash, and women and girls should not be asked to set aside their own fears so they can affirm trans people or make them happy.

Apparently there are lots of "AFAB trans" people in the mental health system.

That would fit in with what we now know about girls who are autistic and/or with mental health issues being persuaded that they are ‘in the wrong body’. Thinking their feelings of alienation stem from being trans, when (to a non-ideological adult’s eye) they obviously have issues that could be healed by psychotherapy or counselling or other mental-health care.

Not got time at the minute to search bu it was a Swedish study. Sweden keeps a lot of information linked up about their citizens which enables them to study populations over the long term. This particular study compared mortality or transitioned men with the rest of the male population.

Yes, poor soul, that sounds desperate. I have heard from service users how horrific these places can be.

Christ, that poor person has a lot of serious issues!

Yes, I think safeguarding is very important, I don't think they are better off with any men at all.

What exactly does non binary mean?

She's probably dodged a bullet by avoiding Darwin, it's hotter than somewhere very hot and very humid. I've just had a 20 minute walk round the shops and now I've stopped dripping, I'm going to have a shower.

Shame though, I may be here till Sunday and would have been up for a lurk at the back of the crowd.

I ❤️ JK Rowling mum not clocking her toddler picking up crap and eating it off the steps made me giggle...

What was that cameraman doing filming a baby in a buggy?

Adelaide!
https://www.youtube.com/live/1C-lu7weTCA?feature=share

@Shelefttheweb , you put
”For example we know that men who transition (and therefore “gender affirmed”) are more than nine times more likely to commit suicide.”

This is sad, and worrying. Could you please give me a source for this? Nine times more likely than ..? Men who might identify to themselves as women but who don’t formally transition, men in general, or something else?

And in the NHS we know that actually truly means 'fuck' women literally, then deny they've been raped as it was a single sex ward full of women.

Every time the TRAs push out a piece of 'centre us and fuck the rights of women' they push yet more actual women to the "I've had enough off this make believe shit" side.