This is what happens when women say "No" - Vermont school ban

Trans people should not be excluded from sport. Sport is segregated by sex not gender. This transgirl (AKA boy) should not be prevented from playing on the boy's team. If they excluded them from that then we'd have a true case of transphobia. They didn't so this is clearly a case of misogyny

All this vicious discrimination against women (in this case women who want to play sports against other women, and not be overwhelmed and injured playing men) is done in the name of the "LGBTQ+ community". Well I am a gay man and it is certainly not a community to which I belong.

@PermanentTemporary

I know most people don't give a shit about women's sport. It is extraordinary to me that a whole group of people have persuaded themselves that it's progressive not to give a shit about women's sport. That women's sport is worthless unless we lie down and open our legs. I used to get that from a few male rowers but I thought that was just arrogant sexism. Who knew it was actually so fashion forward?

This is what truly shocked me at first when I still thought that feminism equals working to stop sex-based discrimination, sex-based violence, and sex-based oppression on the global level.

Female people really are ranked lower in importance.

But it's not about the pictures.

I know a few slight, delicate lads, and my sport is rowing so I know some real bruisers on the female side. The male coxes might be shorter than most of the female crew. In non-elite rowing people are obviously all shapes and sizes.

Except... you watch the boats move and you can see the additional male power. I know enough about rowing and enough about anatomy to know exactly what it is about male and female bodies that makes the difference.

I know most people don't give a shit about women's sport. It is extraordinary to me that a whole group of people have persuaded themselves that it's progressive not to give a shit about women's sport. That women's sport is worthless unless we lie down and open our legs. I used to get that from a few male rowers but I thought that was just arrogant sexism. Who knew it was actually so fashion forward?

I read, though can't vouch for the truth of this, that the ban applies to all the events this organisation supports, not just sports events. So the Christian school would also be excluded from some spelling bees etc..

But as far as I can tell the reason is in the state law which makes it impossible to exclude transgender students (who at that point have no hormone treatments or body modifications) from participating in the category they choose for themselves.

Massachusetts (another progressive New England state) recently had a state championships in track and field, and one girls' team had a nonbinary-identifying male in it.

A big problem with the nonbinary category is that those choosing it can also choose everything else: Which sexed categories they'd like to win in sports, for example. So male students can compete as female students even without identifying as girls.

What they say:
The inclusion of transgender athletes, especially in girls’ and women’s sports, has been met with pushback from conservatives, with many arguing that transgender athletes have an advantage over cisgender women.

What they mean:
The inclusion of male athletes in girls’ and women’s sports has been met with pushback from rational people, with many arguing that male athletes have an advantage over women.

Does the Guardian actually understand why we have separate male and female sporting categories?

This is what a male trans player on a women's basketball team looks like.

Thanks for posting this - I saw it and my blood boiled. I follow the controversy over biological males in female sports the most. While comments are generally supportive of keeping female sports female, there are always plenty of men saying "women need to boycott ", "women need to stand up", "where are the feminists?" Etc etc

This is what happens when they boycott. All the girls lose more.

Appalling.

Yy @SquidwardBound.

And to the monitors: have you tweeted misrepresenting this thread yet as 'mummies upset they're being called conservatives because they are' yet? Chop chop! Crappy superficial individualist lies won't just tweet themselves you know!

Fully agree, as in Canada the school would never have boycotted the game in the first place. There is almost no push back whatsoever. Those who have are practically bullied out of the country (ex. the amazing Megan Murphy).

Well they probably do have lots of views on women’s rights and science and such like that I vehemently disagree with.

But, as you say, that doesn’t mean that all their views and actions are terrible (from my perspective). They probably feel
similarly to me about young children getting outside play opportunities, for example. Doesn’t mean that I’d want to send my kids there.

tbh, these kind of thing should really alert us to areas of broad societal consensus. People with all sorts of religious views (and none) can agree on basic stuff like kids should get to play outside or kids should eat meals that are nutritious enough or the physical differences between the sexes mean that some sports should be single sex. Mostly people
do agree on this stuff.

The problem here is that a pretty extreme ideology has managed to convince liberals that only terrible conservatives would agree with the last one - and anyone who isn’t fully in support of some male teenagers competing against female teenagers is a horrible bigot.

No debate is all about preventing any discussion where it would probably transpire that most people - even ‘liberals’ - do actually think that a 6’ 15 year old male teenager should not be rugby tackling teenage girls. No matter how that male teenager wants the world to identify them.

That sums up the entire problem doesn’t it? “These people hold one wrong view, ergo their views on the rights of women and girls, sport, and science and everything else in the entire universe are automatically wrong.”

They are so childish. All of them who take this view.

You're so right - reading that I felt personally 'wrong' because it said 'conservatives'. Even though logically and in reality I know that it's not just conservatives who oppose inclusion of males in female sports, and it's not in any way bigoted to want women and girls to be able to play and compete fairly and safely.

It's outrageous that just saying they won't play in a game where they don't feel safe, they are punished in this way. Literally - the only way to avoid this punishment would have been for the girls to overcome and ignore their own instincts and feelings and participate in something they didn't want to. Forcing females to do things they don't want to do. Inclusion. Ffs.

Let’s face it, this is exactly the kind of school that can only be in the wrong from the guardian’s perspective.

Thing is, I suspect that this particular school is easy to ostracise because it’s already viewed by liberals as part of the problem. It’s a Christian school that probably is overtly conservative.

That makes it really easy to dismiss the stance it’s taken as ‘right wing’ and ‘bigoted’.

These categories function so that the groups don’t listen to each other at all, and never recognise where there might be common ground or where the reviled group might actually have a point.

The guardian’s reporting of this is an almost perfect demonstration of this rhetoric.

It has the added advantage of silencing anyone within the ‘liberal’ camp, even getting them to police their own thoughts, because they don’t want to see themselves as conservative. That would be awful. Best not to pursue those thoughts and to seek to cleanse oneself of any questions about whether trans people are actually the most marginalised group that’s ever existed and at risk of violence and genocide if anyone sets biological categories for school sport. That way bigotry lies.

I mean, this shouldn't be happening at all obv and it's insane. But if they did set up a new league, eventually it would probably come to dominate, leaving all the TW to compete with each other. It's what's going to happen anyway in sport if this carries on - being male gives an advantage so all "women's" teams that want to be competitive will eventually become all TW.

They should set up their own female only leagues with any other schools who would like to take part.

I hope this does end up in court. If a male athlete who thinks he's a boy/man can't play on a woman's team, why is that? Presumably because he's male? The test should be for whether someone is actually, physically male or female - and that can be tested for. Gender ID cannot, so basing sports teams on it makes no sense and is clearly open to cheating, as well as being harmful to female players.

In addition, such an overblown reaction highlights the fact that the boards are aware of the issue and unfairness but just want to shut down any discussion by causing others to fear similar sanctions.

Had seen a different article on this and did not realise that the ban applied to all sports for the school, so not just the basketball team punished. For what other offence would a school be sanctioned in this way? Hopefully the school stands strong for the girls and any anger/pressure from parents of other students is focused on the boards who banned them and not the basketball team.

It's awful.

Girls put up with males in sport or don't play.

Remind me who is being discriminated against here?

The liberals in the US have LOST THEIR MINDS over this. I mean how can they not see how awfully sexist and regressive they are being?

This was chilling effect in action.

One of these cases inevitably has to end up in SCOTUS to determine whether sex or gender is the important part of Title IX.

Hopefully they can get some lawsuit going and not take it lying down.

Yes typical Guardian propaganda bullshit “journalism”:

The inclusion of transgender athletes, especially in girls’ and women’s sports, has been met with pushback from conservatives…

…liberals, Democrats, women, athletes, scientists, men who understand fairness and safety and the vast majority of the human population…

with many arguing pointing out the bleeding obvious that transgender male athletes have an advantage over cisgender women and girls.

This is a school. We are talking about children.

Noted that they refer throughout to “transgender athletes”. Presumably the school has no restrictions on female transgender athletes, had anyone bothered to ask. This constant lying is exhausting.

The Vermont Principals’ Association, an organization that sponsors various school sport activities, ruled that the MCVS had violated its policies and will be ineligible to participate in future tournaments that it sanctions. The move applies to all sports.

“The VPA again reiterates its ongoing support of transgender student-athletes as not only a part of building an inclusive community for each student to grow and thrive, but also as a clear expectation by Vermont state law(s) in the Agency of Education Best Practices, and in VPA Policy regarding transgender student athletes,” the association said in a statement.

It sent a letter to the school saying that Mid Vermont did not meet the association’s policies on race, gender and disability awareness. Mid Vermont has yet to respond to the sanctions.

The inclusion of transgender athletes, especially in girls’ and women’s sports, has been met with pushback from conservatives, with many arguing that transgender athletes have an advantage over cisgender women. Eighteen US states have passed laws that prohibit transgender athletes from taking part in female school sports.

Trans rights advocates argue for the inclusion of an already marginalized group that has faced historic discrimination, and threats to their lives.
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Not one single solitary shiny shit given to the female of the species.

a part of building an inclusive community for each student to grow and thrive

Fuck this shit. How can anyone argue this is fair to all?

Fair to all males certainly. It's sure as hell not fair to females.

It's one massive fuck you to females.

This isn't an inclusive community no matter how much the powers that be try to gaslight women and girls that it is.