Did Rachel Reeves change anyone's mind re Labour?

I'm neither giving a hard no or a hard yes at this point. There are signs of a shift - for which I give all credit to the Labour Women's Declaration - and I'm happy to make encouraging noises if it helps. But no way, when there are probably still 18 months or more to go, am I promising them my vote on the basis of so little. They can do a lot better and I think I'm entitled to ask for better.

The Tories have never had a female Chancellor or Shadow Chancellor.

All excellent point @FKATondelayo . A useful checklist of the things they need to do to be credible on womens rights

Thanks @FKATondelayo I'd forgotten the abomination that is Lily Madigans role in the Labour Party.

It's a hard no from me OP.

”I respect them and accept that without asking to see their birth certificate, their passport, or asking them to pull their trousers down.”

This is such an idiotic thing to say.

Streeting saying ""I acknowledge that women who have been raising the alarm about this have done so in good faith. We need to stop gaslighting women, stop silencing women and stop pretending that there aren’t challenges"...

He doesn't say the women were right, does he? "In good faith" = genuine but wrong.

And not pretending there aren't challenges? Well, that just tells me Labour will try to deal with the "challenges" i.e. make self ID palatable by tinkering with a few things they think the public finds unpalatable.

I bet that will involve looking at men sentenced for sexual offences and identifying as women "on a case by case basis" before deciding on prison placement. That'll be pretty much it.

Any other man who gets a GRC can crack on invading women's spaces. And given Streeting's stance that it is unacceptable to check ID, that means in practice any man, GRC holder or not.

And as for what is taught in schools - can you really see Labour publishing and enforcing sensible guidelines? "Something something wishy washy respect be kind accept people's identities and kinks."

I was a lifelong Labour voter. Self-ID was the wake up call for me concerning Labour's structural misogyny. Self-ID is an important issue in itself but even removing that from their manifesto, there is

• grooming gangs and the failure to properly review and understand how Labour councils enbabled
• Lloyd Russell-Moyle among many other misogynist male MPs
• sex work is work / Leeds zones
• let's teach children how to strangle-wank safely!
• Lily Madigan
• Eddie Izzard
• Jeremy Corbyn cultists
• never had a woman leader
• treatment of women in unions
• Glasgow Council's sex discrimination case / banning all women services
• Nottingham Council illegally discriminating against feminists
• nasty Momentum idiots like Claudia Webbe and Jared O'Mara being tolerated for so long
• Sadiq Khan and his (lack of) oversight of the Met Police / sacking of Joan Smith

I'm sure there are a million other things I could add.

I have absolutely ZERO confidence in the current Labour party when it comes to any women's or children's issues. I can't imagine ever voting for them again and I doubt I will ever vote for any major political party again.

Yeah, I think labour in general and Streeting in particular are never going to go full gender critical - it's just not going to happen. If that's your red line then you won't be able to vote for them. But for me - who would like a labour government across policy areas from poverty and benefits to education and brexit - I thought the 'gaslighting' language and the acknowledgement of difficulty/conflict was really interesting and positive. I don't need labour to agree with me but I do need them to stop calling me a bigot, and I think they're getting there.

Streeting is gaslighting too in that quote.

They voted for it, without a gun to their heads!

Streeting was once in Stonewall along with Angela Rayner in the 'Labour against Transphoiba' group with Lilly Maddigan.

I have that DANGER signal around Streeting and always will.

I don’t think Labour are trustworthy on this issue.

"I acknowledge that women who have been raising the alarm about this have done so in good faith. We need to stop gaslighting women, stop silencing women and stop pretending that there aren’t challenges"

That's a major shift (and one that starmer hasn't been able to utter). It does look as if those pink leggings have had a significant impact on the Labour silencers of women. But they need to follow through with actual policy proposals before I'll believe them.

I also wanted to add that the more people try to make me not have that sensation in my body, the more I get it. It is not something that anyone is ever going to be able to talk me out of.

It's like my inner voice is screaming at me DANGER, when I see certain triggers, be they the traffic light red 🚥 and now I have that really strongly for other things, because they are a rational danger.

Is not being Stella Creasy seriously the best that women on the centre-left can hope for?
Why are we being asked to expect so little from our well paid elected representatives?

I appreciate those who stay.

It's not just the labour party politicians.

I get that reaction to the NHS, Police uniforms, certain flags and GNC people now too, I actually want to gag at men in particular, it's not irrational, it's evidence based because they stand for and safeguard dangerous men.

The way they handled this made me see that I was projecting what I thought the labour party was onto it. My eyes are open and I can't see me ever voting for the left again.

I now physically get the same sensation in my body that I get from a a creep/sex offender, as that's what they support, that has now become a reaction I get to certain logos and it's there for a reason.

Thanks for this fromorbit:

Do not treat potential wavering allies as set enemies, especially women, because being a women on the left is hard. Remember the alternative to Reeves is someone like Stella Cressy. Dodds, the previous shadow Chancellor, is way more confused about gender than Reeves is.

I'm trying to keep that bridge open but the party is making it bloody hard. Presumably the groundswell that's turning into a tsunami of complaints about what's happening in schools and to women will help that shift continue - but they've not got much longer to reclaim their common sense and ethics about all this.

She’s a lone voice. Even the idiotic labour leader cannot tell you what a woman is. They’re being led by the vocal (screeching) minority.

I sign the the Government petition to repeal the GRA, it needs to go.

The equality act provides mentally ill people and those with ideologies rights.

Flashers shouldn't have the right to have NHS staff arrest female patients for complaints that a man flashed them on a ward.

I guess time will tell. It'll be interesting to see if updating the GRA is in their GE manifesto. I feel at the moment they are just trying to distance themselves from the SNP fiasco. Hopefully Starmer won't want to risk the same humiliation.

I am glad that the UK doesn't have unhelpful religious people like in the US where they are insisting that gender is sex ( I don't know if historically they had paperwork like we had here with sex on it) or that in marriage you are one flesh so men can be pregnant too.

Men are expected a baby with their wife and will become a Father, insisting that 'we are pregnant' isn't helpful at all.

I noticed they get their WhatsApp prayer groups to come for me too when I point this out.

I piss everyone off religious and non religious.

I think conservatives want this to be an issue labour dont. In england at least, labour are going to want to appear as close as possible to the conservatives view so it doesnt become a hot issue.

If both parties are allowed to get away with saying women are female, nothing is going to change. Acknowledging sex at this stage isnt enough, we need to force both parties to justify why the GRA and EqA SSE is allowing men to be in changing rooms with girls.

Both parties can then fight it out as to why.

Agreed absolutely!