Tennessee Marriage Equality - The First to Fall

invalide · 2023-03-09T13:09:37+00:00

The anti-LGBTQ political climate you are a part of has contributed to [[https://trackbill.com/bill/tennessee-house-bill-878-marriage-as-introduced-states-that-a-person-is-not-required-to-solemnize-a-marriage-if-the-person-has-an-objection-to-solemnizing-the-marriage-based-on-the-persons-conscience-or-religious-beliefs-amends-tca-title-4-title-29-and-title-36/2345964/ this]] bill passing. It was never going to stop at trans people. I'm not some liberal for whom marriage equality is the be-all end-all metric of 'progress' or 'freedom', but it's indisputable we're looking at a backsliding of what limited recent progress has been made.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/03/2023 00:07

@invalide

TheBiologyStupid · 10/03/2023 23:58

Hi @invalide it would be great if you could engage with the thread that you started.

ApocalipstickNow · 10/03/2023 16:40

Thelnebriati
always love seeing non angry Arnold J.

Johnduttonsbuttocks · 10/03/2023 16:34

Random789 · 09/03/2023 13:43

@invalide I expect you know how dishonest you are being. The determination to attribute views and alliances to people that they have not in any way expressed is one of the most pathetic, desperate and infuriating tactics of TRAs. And frankly it shows how few arguments they have.

You do know, don't you, that the belief that sex is binary, unchangeable, and significant is shared by almost everybody on the planet? It follows that it is going to be shared by some people who are reactionary, bigotted shit heads. But, hey, are you going to give up believing in gravity because Hitler believed in it too? Are you a closet Tory because you share Rishi Sunak's belief that Birmingham is north of London?

Fuck off with these weaselly intellectually bankrupt micro-punches.

All of that, with a dollop of cream on top.

Thelnebriati · 10/03/2023 15:39

I think we're all beginning to lose sight of the real issue here, which is: what are we going to call ourselves?

Tennessee Marriage Equality - The First to Fall

Ourladycheesusedatum · 10/03/2023 15:33

MassiveWordSalad · 09/03/2023 14:33

"Mumsnet: Giant-slaying Cross-jurisdictional World-dominating Impact - by parents, for parents"

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I mean I like it, very much, but it's not very catchy.

nilsmousehammer · 10/03/2023 15:12

Quite. The law allows for equality of marriage rights. If someone's beliefs are incompatible with carrying out a marriage service then perhaps that should have been thought about when the job was advertised, but if it's just a case that that particular person can't do it but someone else can, whatever As a homosexual I'm fine with other people having beliefs I don't share. And flexible solutions that work for everyone.

It's called live and let live. Diversity. And not being an authoritarian arse.

DrDinosaur · 10/03/2023 14:10

Shelefttheweb · 09/03/2023 14:13

So, the picture you put up states an individual does not need to solemnise a marriage if they have religious or conscientious objections. I don’t see the issue with that. Or don’t you agree with freedom of belief?

This.

I am seeing increasing intolerance of those who believe their religion states homosexual sex is a sin, or that marriage is a union between a man and a woman.
Fine to oppose people if they want their beliefs enshrined in law, but they are entitled to their own beliefs.

I respect politicians like Tim Farron and Kate Forbes who are not willing to lie about their Christian belief even when it would be to their personal advantage.

(I’m not gay, but I do have two children born out of wedlock, which many Christians think is sinful, and that’s fine by me, as long as they’re not proposing laws that impact me and my children).

Retractable · 10/03/2023 13:42

Thinking about this, I don’t think the bill actually has anything to do with trans at all. It’s about an issue that affects some religious people in relation to gay marriage.

Absolutely fuck all to do with trans. It’s about lesbians and gay people.

Yet, here we have a TRA making it all about trans. As always. They cannot let any issue just be a gay and lesbian issue. It must always be over coded with the T.

The issue of homophobia and religious belief simply has nothing to do with trans. It would exist in its own right regardless of what anyone thinks about any trans issue. Homophobia has a very long history, which is nothing to do with the TWI+ word salad some groups want to overcode it with.

It’s yet another attempt to make things all about the T. Nothing is allowed to be a LGB rights issue. Nothing is allowed to be a women’s rights issue. It is only acceptable to centre trans in any debate at all for these people.

Kai965 · 10/03/2023 13:08

Not sure I see the fuss, it's allowing a conscience clause for conducting a gay marriage. All that means is you find another celebrant and seeing as in America almost anyone can register to be a celebrant, this doesn't seem as big a deal as it's being made out to be. We have a conscience clause for gay marriage in CofE churches in the UK, and for conducting abortions.

WhereYouLeftIt · 10/03/2023 12:58

CharlieParley · 09/03/2023 13:48

And another thing, there was a very early warning sign of this development in the US, when the ongoing struggle to protect employees from discrimination on the basis of their sexuality (at a federal level) was made harder by including gender identity. That law proposal was called ENDA. It had its best chance of passing in 2007, but this was scuppered by TRA winning the fight to have gender identity included in the Bill. After a lot of debate, it became clear that it would not pass because of that, so gender identity was then dropped again. The damage was done, though, and ENDA failed. Again. (And LGB rights campaigners had basically begged trans rights campaigners to let them have this Bill, because it would amount to self-sabotage to include the T. To no avail.)

From 2009, gender identity was included as a must.

ENDA never passed, never even got close after that. So the LGBT community gave up on it in 2015 and is now focusing on the Equality Act, which is still not law. In 2023.

If (and it's a big but reasonable if based on legal and political opinions I read), LGB campaigners had been allowed to focus on their rights first, I'm certain ENDA would have passed by now.

So I would say that there'll be a fair number of gay men and lesbian women in the US who'll blame someone entirely different from the OP for this new Bill.

I remember that! One of my earliest heads-up that the T lobby gave not one shiny shit for LGBs, so what the fuck was this new LGBT about? My introduction to the concept of forced teaming and T trying to ride the coat-tails of LGB and instead bringing LGB to a halt through the weight of their unreasonable demands.

As others have said before me - YOU did this @invalide. YOU are those of your mind are responsible for for this shitshow. YOU can fuck off.

myveryownelectrickitten · 10/03/2023 12:56

Oh, not this tedious boy again. 🙄

Abhannmor · 10/03/2023 12:26

invalide · 09/03/2023 13:37

The same politicians who count themselves part of your political movement are the ones bringing about these laws. The debate whipped up around trans people's existence has simply been a foot in the door, an acceptable first target to shift the mainstream discourse further right.

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You left the door open , now you complain there's a draft. The reactionary right have always blamed gender extremism on feminism and the left and on gay people.

There's zero evidence for such views but they were always going to find a willing audience in the deep South.

Faffertea · 10/03/2023 12:16

Bold fail there sorry!

Faffertea · 10/03/2023 12:16

@GailBlancheViola
And yet we've been repeatedly told there are only 6 of us, no-one takes any notice of us, the general public are not on our side, politicians are not on our side, nobody is listening to us and yet, amazingly, we wield such power that we are able to exert influence on a Bill passed in a State in America.

Incredible.

Schrodinger’s Vipers

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 11:51

nilsmousehammer · 10/03/2023 11:32

Yes. Even when baby kicks mummy vigorously and repeatedly in the shins while screaming that you hate her, mummy is still required to pick up baby and unconditionally meet all needs. At least in baby's mind. Mummy is a need meeting thingy with no other life or purpose.

Mummies are always supposed to love everyone!!!! That is what mummies do!

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 11:50

Do you think I should have put a sarcasm alert on my post?

nilsmousehammer · 10/03/2023 11:32

Yes. Even when baby kicks mummy vigorously and repeatedly in the shins while screaming that you hate her, mummy is still required to pick up baby and unconditionally meet all needs. At least in baby's mind. Mummy is a need meeting thingy with no other life or purpose.

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 11:30

Yes, but have some sympathy for a male

No.

No debate

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 11:29

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 11:11

Ugh, it's that poster.

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Yes, but have some sympathy for a male that has been led to believe that women should be wonderfully welcoming and just lovely to you, despite you having admitted that you were over dancing and yelling and intimidating women in the name of righteousness and were then clocked by women just strolling through the crowd of women taking photos of women’s faces.

That you as a male believed that you ‘should’ do this shows supreme misogyny and complete lack of awareness.

That you as a male then complained that those mean women ‘brazenly looked you up and down’ and ‘made you feel unwelcome’ and posted this on a feminist forum… well.

Not much more you can say about that really.

It really speaks for itself.

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 11:12

MassiveWordSalad · 09/03/2023 14:33

"Mumsnet: Giant-slaying Cross-jurisdictional World-dominating Impact - by parents, for parents"

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Bit wordy. But I like it 👍

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 11:11

Helleofabore · 09/03/2023 14:19

"The same politicians who count themselves part of your political movement are the ones bringing about these laws. The debate whipped up around trans people's existence has simply been a foot in the door, an acceptable first target to shift the mainstream discourse further right."

The same politicians...

Our 'political movement' is one of feminism.

YOU seem to equate the belief that sex cannot be changed as a 'political movement'. Because you don't seem to understand, or even wish to understand, what the feminist perspective actually is.

"The debate whipped up around trans people's existence"

You mean the 'whipping' up with all the protests where angry males intimidate women?

Like the one you attended yourself. The one where you, someone who was likely seen over enthusiastically participating in the protest, the one with signs like 'decapitate terfs' decided to stroll through the group of women listening to the speakers and record their faces with your camera.

You mean.... that kind of 'whipping' up?

Ugh, it's that poster.

TrouserTownie · 10/03/2023 10:55

Take it up with "invalide", then.

There are sooo many points I would love to take up with @invalide . Why do these plop-and-scuttle posters never engage in proper debate if they are so sure of their righteous position?

Eyesofdisarray · 10/03/2023 10:50

Gaslighting
Women-bashing
Anti LGBT??? Where do you get that from OP?? Twisting so much your post could hide behind a corkscrew.
We can't even have IWD to ourselves. Get lost Stonewall

RethinkingLife · 10/03/2023 10:40

Datun · 09/03/2023 13:16

Many women on here predicted, and were dreading, the LGB backlash as a result of trans ideology. You're blaming the wrong people.

Transactivists deliberately force teamed with homosexual rights, in order to authenticate their goals.

It's all documented in the Denton report.

What did you think women meant when they said trans ideology is regressive??

Transactivists don't even believe in homosexuality. Take it up with them.

It's time for the regular scolding of women who refuse to have their rights dissolved.

Rules of misogyny.

Women are responsible for what men do.
Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad. 11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves. 14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent. 15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.