Women’s rights have gone ‘too far’, say majority of Gen Z and millennials, study shows

Has it been pointed out that the survey was international covering 32 diverse nations and it is the average that is being reported.

The responses to individual questions varied wildy dependent on country. For instance 78% of those questioned in Thailand thought women's equality had gone too far whilst only 24% of Portuguese thought the same

I think aswell a lot of this debate always talks about ‘men stepping up’… I don’t personally think that will really happen as it’s too conceptual and doesn’t really mean anything. You can’t quantify it. I think the debate should be reframed around the idea of equality being levelled by looking at our differences and ‘making up’ for those. Better rewards/provision for childcare for example so that if you are in that role you are not ‘losing out’. Better benefits for single parents, particularly single mothers. Huge overhaul of the CMS so mothers categorically cannot be left unsupported. This type of outlook would lead us to better equality and one which is more achievable than simply aiming for an equality which is based on typically male lifestyles and roles which is what we have today and it is unworkable for women and absolutely unachievable for mothers. X

"The share of the British public who say they are scared to speak out and advocate for the equal rights of women has doubled since 2017, rising from 14 per cent to 29 per cent. The majority (71 per cent), however, continue to say this does not apply to them."

"Younger generations tend to be be most fearful, with Gen Z (38 per cent) around twice as likely as baby boomers (19 per cent) to feel this way."

We can add this as just another poll that points to the intolerance of the 'tolerant' society.

This sounds suspiciously like you're saying that women shouldn't pursue equality in the workplace but that there should be more value placed on raising children and the work that they do in the domestic sphere? Have I misunderstood?

What about the women who don't want to be valued just for raising children etc? What about those who feel that they want to have an impact beyond the domestic sphere? What about those who want to protect their financial independence?

My mum was a sahm because it was the done thing for women of her social class at the time. She was bored and unfulfilled and deeply regrets the fact that she didn't have more opportunities to use her talents beyond the home. She became depressed and miserable, and we felt guilty for limiting what she could do.

Life wasn't all that idyllic when women were stuck at home, you know.

"The research seems to suggest that far greater proportions of the youngest generations are afraid of speaking out in favour of women’s equal rights. Which is is interesting given how often younger people are portrayed as fearlessly speaking up for what they think is right."

The research shows that younger people are the opposite. They are fearful of the repercussions of speaking about what they truly feel is 'right'. There have now been 2 or 3 polls that have show this over the past 2 years.

The age group of 18-28 (and I would say even younger) don't voice their opinions (or at least their true opinions) with their friends, social groups or in class because they are worried about the result.

That is way when any poster ever says that 'the younger generation' are the most tolerant and that we are dinosaurs that will die out soon, I laugh in their face. Because they are living in a carefully contrived fantasy where they believe they are righteous. And it is society, and social media, that has colluded in creating this situation where those who believe they are 'righteous' and 'on the right side of history' are in fact either wilfully ignoring or simply don't understand the dynamics at play where in fact the true opinions of that age group are being hidden like a guilty secret.

The very opposite to tolerant.

That is what happens with language is destabilised. Where even the word tolerant means the very opposite of what it was intended to mean.

They want to keep women out of the workplace and feel resentment about carrying the whole burden and refuse to pay women to not work, or to have children. Ask them to make it make sense and you're written off as a misandrist.

not sure that men managing to get married in their 20s is a sign of their inherent high quality.

Young people naiive enough to buy into MRA armchair theory. Half of whom won't have to painfully discover through life experience what bullshit they've been sold, and that they were sold it in the name of male domination of them. The new progressive thing is to be male supremacist while trying to convince females that they want it and love being oppressed. (Which tells you that the conscience is nagging those pushing this that if they had to be honest about it they know they couldn't justify it.)

Yes. this. Amazing. Women get screwed but it's OUR fault that men haven't stepped up.

yes @justasking111 this idea of equality where women are doing life ‘like men’ in the name of equality means actually women are actually just working 24/7, again to often support men through being an employee, creating wealth for their employer and also at home supporting their husbands lives. This isn’t equality it’s a scam we’ve been sold imo. I’m not having baby no2 because I’m not prepared to do even more work than I’m already doing. That’s my personal situation but I think it applies to many many women. Xx

so what are you saying? That women choosing to work is the problem?

Because frankly, I'd agree that life is hard. That two people working means less time and more stress at home. But I'd also argue that
a) women (or men) shouldn't HAVE to stay at home, lots of us get real satisfaction and joy out of having careers
b) in many cases, two parents working is an economic necessity. This is not a feminist issue, it's an issue with the cost of living
c) work etc has changed. Long hours are far more standard than they were and an always-on-culture makes it difficult to switch off when you're not at work. Because of COL, commuting is often a much more onerous process (and more expensive). Productivity expectations have increased massively and that brings additional stress (and work hours).

So the solution isn't to say, "ooh, women are idiots for wanting it all". The solution is to say, "what should we be doing at a societal level to improve things for everyone? How can we make it possible for one parent to stay home, ion that's what they want? how can we make it so that work expectations and resources are lowered for individuals? How do we ensure that highly talented women can make a difference?"

@justasking111 Yes - but I used to think it was a Western problem. I lived in places that never had the feminist movements the same way the UK had (and completely different culture generally) and things were worse there in some ways. So I don't think its feminism as such. Rather that globally in the developed world wages have stagnated relative to costs or even fallen, the economy relies on people consuming rather than producing which also means people are encouraged to spend more and live extended childhoods etc.

The issue is the so-called ‘wonderful life of equality and choice’ we are supposed to have through working, has actually lead to women doing it all, rather than ‘having it all’

You seem to be blaming feminism for this outcome. Many men are still not prepared to let go of the right to use women as housekeepers; while at the same time resenting women for being leeches that deprive them of their hard earned cash.
The alternative was that women did not fight to have the right to equality in the workplace. Are you saying that would be preferable?

more and more I am thinking that actually us Millenials have been told we can have it all and we are equal etc etc - and actually we are so so far from equality it’s just a big scam. I’ve felt this so strongly since having a baby- far more so than before. I think actually we’ve aimed for equality in the sense that we can be the same as men, rather than actual achievable equality which would be more about appreciating women as women - putting value on raising children and seeking an equality based on our differences. I’m not sure I can articulate what I’m trying to say - but the version of equality we are hankering after will never be equality imo and just adds more value to what are typically male roles and life patterns which for many women isn’t really equality and won’t give us any equality. It has the secondary effect of killing the birth rate as no value is placed on family life or child rearing by society so that will be a fun problem to contend with in the future; for all of us. Xx

I agree too. Women working full time, managing children, home, shopping, cooking, garden, so many balls to juggle. It's bloody awful and IMO a relationship breaker. Then you get to be a single parent juggling with less income.

I'm a boomer rural Wales no nurseries so you stayed home until both children in school. We were skint, high interest rates, shared one car. No holidays. BUT we didn't need food banks, universal credit. The poverty now is unreal. Taxes, energy bills, council tax, were all stable rising slightly each year.

You're working yourselves into the ground. This is where feminism went off the rails.

Yeah totally! But to speak up for the younger generation a little bit - part of the reason for the "extended youth" is that a lot of the traditional markers of adulthood (a decent job, your own house) take a lot longer to get to. The reasons for that are very complicated. But I agree people are also encouraged to extend their youth/not to take responsibility and I think that affects men more than women along with a false idea of the past (I know someone whose husband was never there on Sundays to help with the kids because he always went to football practice. When pressed he argued that he "had always gone to the football ever since he was little and his dad took him". But couldn't see that he was now in his dads position but doing less childcare.)

RoseFl0wers · Today 10:45

The % for different gens are similar, despite the sensationalised headline. The article also doesn’t mention how many people were in each sample size.

As well as that, it'd be interesting to have a break down of answers by sex, as well as absolute numbers and percentages.

This in spades.

I don’t think women are ‘too picky’, we have enabled the quality of men to go down with the ‘extended youth’ we encourage people to have.

I know of 2 men who have walked out on their families in the last few weeks. No major issues, such as cheating or abuse, they just don’t feel family life is for them any more (both have 2 year olds) and the grind was ‘affecting their mental health’. These are men in their early 30s!

Being anti misogyny is not being anti men!

Unless you are suggesting that all men are misogynists?

I adore my sons and the many other males in my life. I just don't have time for misogynists and want our misogynist society shaken up. Good men do exist and they are not scared by this.

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

Women's history isn't really taught in a way which explains that society was and still is to an extent built upon the back of free labour from women. Often reality only hits home after childbirth, but then we're exhausted.
This hits home to me. In my early 20s being the cool feminist I was all about empowerment, you do you, be kind, don't question an action if a woman says it's empowering, and I focused on individuals having opportunities to have it all. I fell into the trap of centring my feminism on the actions and opportunities of individual women and not women as a class.

There comes a point where if women are genuinely interested in feminism, they will realise that the (generally) older feminists might have a point when they focus on structural inequalities. The unpaid labour of women on a societal level is not highlighted in women's history and it means younger feminists find a home in superficial feminism.

I find a lot of the treads on here from women suffering from 'gender disappointment' when they find out they are having a son, really sad. It is very noticable how anti boy (and men ) many Western countries are in the last couple of decades. I really get that it cannot be compared to the imbalance in sexes in China and India but I saw that New York now has more female babies than male babies. Someone on here was asking the other day for the reliability of Sneak Peak and how early you can get a result.
I wish that MN were not so anti men. It gives a false impression of how hated men are. Not true I hope on here or in real life.

*bins not bibs!

It isn’t patronising. DH does just as much as as me, probably more. All childcare activities not ‘bibs and DIY’. Yet we’re both low level stressed because getting in at 5.3-6, herding children to the living room, going through book bags and putting away coats and shoes, hastily preparing meals and drinks, getting hands washed and bibs on and sat up, then watching a toddler painstakingly finish their meal, getting them upstairs, bathing them, brushing teeth, drying hair, changed into pyjamas, stories, final wee, bedtime, then washing up, packing bags, putting a load of washing on, sorting other washing, taking dog for a final round the block, getting things ready for the morning, before even being able to sit down, is a lot to even divide between 2 people 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m on maternity leave (baby not yet born) and the difference in stress levels is phenomenal even though I’m not doing ‘much’. Simply having dinner ready for the moment they get home, and doing a few extra tasks in the day like the washing and hoovering really takes the pressure off.