Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miriam Cates report on RSE

109 replies

RPMcMurphy · 09/03/2023 09:30

Starting a new thread as this report is being discussed in others and I think it needs a thread of its own.

Report available here:
www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf

Lots of media attention around it, even mainstream TV news, and plenty of press.

(Not) to my surprise, there is quite a bit of pushback on social media, of the usual 'it isn't happening, and even if it is it's only in a few schools, and even if it is in a lot of schools who cares you are all pearl-clutching bigots'.

Also unsurprised by the response of head teachers, given the numerous reports here on Mumsnet about their behaviour when parents express concerns:
“Head teachers said they were unhappy about the review. James Bowen, director of policy the National Association of Head Teachers, said: “It is hard to be anything other than deeply concerned by this announcement.”"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fb68df7c-bdc4-11ed-8959-aac6a1130ac2?shareToken=bf5da7c9d4de81e288a9d29fa865ba99

Please please please write to your MP, ccing the Pm and Gillian Keegan to say you support this review and that it must be quick and independent. Let them know that this is popular!

Do not allow the naysayers to have the loudest voices.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 10:21

Spielman will address the ASCL conference today at 10:50:

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/bromance-in-paris-hs2-derailed-budget-looms/

"CULTURE WARS: The Telegraph, which Matt Hancock will be relieved to note is starting to splash on things other than the Lockdown Files, devotes page 1 to an interview with Ofsted Chief Inspector Amanda Spielman. She says the regulator is powerless to stop schools giving too much sex education, and some materials that are being used “have no basis in any reputable scientific, biological explanation.” Spielman addresses the ASCL conference at 10.50 a.m.
But but but … This focus was partly spawned by Conservative MP Miriam Cates, who told PMQs pupils had been taught “how to choke your partner safely and 72 genders.” The i’s Paul Waugh has written an unforgiving reality check on her claims, saying the “genders” class was on the Isle of Man, which has its own government, and the “choking” guidance has never been taught in schools."

Politico seems to have its own views on this topic and - when it does cover it - never seems to get it. Anyway, checking the ASCL feed, I note:

https://twitter.com/ascluk/status/1634135346203054080?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"We're actually providing an unofficial network of welfare support that goes largely unseen by the public. We step into the breach because we have a moral purpose to look after children."

Moral purpose to look after children.

ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 10:09

In The Times:

Some sex education has no basis in science, says Ofsted chief

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e5dd1594-bee4-11ed-8959-aac6a1130ac2?shareToken=61ce5ae40beba61a2f7392e2f4958efd

Current top comments:

"So we condemn Muslims and Orthodox Jews from teaching their traditional family values in schools, while allowing the real radical extremists to set the RSE curriculum. Well done Michael Gove and Nick Timothy for your meaningless crusade. Stonewalls Trojan horse was literally underneath your noses.

Why are we waiting for a DoE review by weak kneed civil servants who are too afraid of their shadows, and why is Stonewall being allowed anyone near children in terms of curriculum advice.
The Education Secretary should issue immediate guidance. This needs to be clear that children should only be taught that there are two genders. No amount of radical self identification extremist nonsense can change millions of years of the natural order."

"This will get even worse under a Labour Government.
The Tories need to act now if we are not to have a whole generation that does not know that there are only two sexes - male and female, that you cannot ‘change’ sex, that you are not ‘assigned’ a sex at birth, you are that sex and that you cannot be binary.
As for there being hundred of ‘genders’ where does that tosh come from?
Alison needs to ensure that her inspectors down grade schools who preach some of this nonsense."

RichardBarrister · 10/03/2023 09:20

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 09/03/2023 13:22

My mum was on the PTA when I was a kid and I distinctly remember her helping organise an event where all parents of year 6 (4th year juniors back then!) could attend together to have a preview of the planned Sex Ed lesson. The teacher demo’d the whole thing as if it were the lesson itself showed the video on the big telly with legs, answered questions and provided hand outs and then the PTA served tea and biscuits.

Parents could sign up for just the boys lesson, just the girls lesson or both, one after the other. All done in 2.5 hours or so.

There were no secrets and it ensured the teachers were using age appropriate material that didn’t cross any boundaries (or they wouldn’t dare present it to the parents session).

I distinctly remember my mum commenting on how few dads were attending (one of my best female friends was being raised by a single dad and my mum was trying to get him along for the sake of his daughter, so that she would be able to talk it over with him afterwards if necessary).

Of course, this was all very mild stuff at a primary in the mid 80s and I’m sympathetic re: teachers already having to do individual parents evenings etc but surely having a dedicated event and getting all the queries dealt with in one go is a better use of school resources than having to deal with ad hoc queries, individual appointments to view the materials and then even more time with the leadership team to air complaints?

That’s excellent practice. I know in Ireland and possibly here, a certain very high profile gay rights/humans rights campaigner who has advocated for adults having sex with 9 yr olds was advising government, schools and RSE providers to keep parents firmly away from their RSE teachings/information.

It looks like this advice has been enacted.

Clymene · 10/03/2023 09:06

The link that @ResisterRex posted opens the whole article. You don't need a telegraph sub to read it.

ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 09:00

(Dot) that should say

Or try the wayback machine

ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 08:58

Sorry but we can't post archive links! You can paste the url into archive (do) is though? Give that a try

Ndd135632 · 10/03/2023 08:40

ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 08:14

Here you go @Ndd135632 - see this tweet

twitter.com/cforwomenuk/status/1633947033340870657?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Always check Conservatives for Women or Safe Schools or Transgender Trend. Between them you can usually get a link

I can’t get into Twitter :-(. Sorry x

SirWalterElliot · 10/03/2023 08:18

Has there actually been any evidence presented about kids being taught about 'safe choking' etc?

ResisterRex · 10/03/2023 08:14

Here you go @Ndd135632 - see this tweet

twitter.com/cforwomenuk/status/1633947033340870657?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Always check Conservatives for Women or Safe Schools or Transgender Trend. Between them you can usually get a link

Ndd135632 · 10/03/2023 08:05

ResisterRex · 09/03/2023 22:22

This feels a bit like buck passing.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/09/ofsted-chiefs-warning-explicit-sex-education-lessons/

Ofsted chief’s warning over explicit sex education lessons
Alarm at current guidance which places 'no limits' on what can be taught to children

Does anyone have an archive version of this Telegraph article?

Clymene · 10/03/2023 07:51

Another article in the Times this morning: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e5dd1594-bee4-11ed-8959-aac6a1130ac2?shareToken=4532844316ba5aa86983752f6b004d7c

2fallsfromSSA · 10/03/2023 07:31

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/03/2023 22:56

But he might not know about you. Maybe email?

Have you got a link to his tweets and we can reply with examples

WarriorN · 10/03/2023 07:25

There need to be gov regulation for any charity or organisation writing sex Ed resources

WarriorN · 10/03/2023 07:19

School Governor here. I actually think that head teachers and governors have been put in a really difficult position. There is real pressure from some parents to affirm their child’s ‘gender identity’, and precious little guidance from the D of E on how to deal with conflicting views. And as they have so many other serious issues to deal with, the temptation to just copy a Mermaids approved Trans Policy document is real

Also hard when local CAHMS signpost that way too.

I've said before that as KCSIE (the law on safeguarding) doesn't explicitly outline anything relevant to these situations.

It does mention bullying and specifies transphobia.

It leaves a gaping hole when discussing impact of misogyny and sexual assaults on young by not mentioning single sex spaces.

WarriorN · 10/03/2023 07:14

However, headteachers who have allowed stuff like the Proud Trust’s explicit dice game into their schools need to be held accountable. Anyone who looked at that and said ‘yep fine’ either had a serious lapse in their normal professionalism OR isn’t suited to work with children at all.

It can be more complex than this.

A friend is a MH commissioner in a local area (also a Gp) They had increasing stats of children seeing gps about gender identity but also sexuality for some reason. He had the capacity to commission a project to help work on ideas of not fitting into boxes and labels. To go into schools and youth clubs. I did notice lots of schools in that area had been doing their pride flag scheme.

He's basically GC but not up to speed with political stuff. His intentions were good but it ended up being the proud trust. I said I wasn't sure they were the best but tbh I've no idea who would

No outsiders was bought in by my local LA as part of a council wide project on extremism. I don't know if schools were targeted or invited.

If the local nhs and council are putting these things into schools, schools do assume they're 'trusted sources.' So guidance around not using external sources is confused - they're being told to.

WarriorN · 10/03/2023 06:59

@CryptoFascistMadameCholet I was teaching y4 in early noughties and we did this. Hardly any parents came but we offering them the opportunity. They watched the video etc.

We also do this in my current seething though some parents can't travel. But the resources all go home with the child as it's SEND

I genuinely don't know what's gone awry.

The thing is they can publish the resources but things like gender woo is increasing creeping into literacy lessons via books and pride celebrations

UtopiaPlanitia · 09/03/2023 23:17

Victoria Derbyshire (on Newsnight) is currently patronising a Tory MP re his support for the Miriam Cates report.

Derbyshire has a sex educator in the studio - both she and the educator are dismissing his concerns as outdated and are disbelieving the examples of lesson content Cates gave in the chamber at Westminster.

Derbyshire keeps trying to get the Tory MP to use explicit language to describe the sex acts that were mentioned in sex education lessons he objects to.

Why do BBC always portray this as sensible liberals vs fuddyduddies 🤬 There’s a proper debate that needs to happen here but it’s not being facilitated.

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/03/2023 22:56

But he might not know about you. Maybe email?

2fallsfromSSA · 09/03/2023 22:52

We are happy to talk to him but it would only take a look at our website and twitter feed to see evidence!

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/03/2023 22:48

@2fallsfromSSA
Why not contact Tom Swarbrick (LBC), 2falls?
From what I've heard of him, he's quite sensible on sex v gender issues, and he was horrified by what he was hearing today. But he did say no one had given him any evidence that M Cates wasn't just using inflammatory exaggeration.

2fallsfromSSA · 09/03/2023 22:34

Sorry for influx of messages - just catching up. It's been a busy few days.

2fallsfromSSA · 09/03/2023 22:33

Thingybob · 09/03/2023 13:57

Geoff Barton, General Secretary of ASCL is quoted in The Guardian

www.theguardian.com/education/2023/mar/08/sex-education-review-is-politically-motivated-say-teaching-unions

“The vast majority of schools are incredibly cautious and sensible about the teaching of RSE and we disagree with the sweeping generalisation and inflammatory rhetoric from Miriam Cates in the Commons."

“Schools are doing their best to teach children and young people about things like being safe and respectful relationships in a sensitive and age-appropriate manner, but they are constantly subjected to unhelpful potshots from various individuals and groups."

We wrote to the ASCL and we have had numerous conversations with Rachel Warwick when she was president. Continuously dismissed - nobody in a senior position can say they did not know.

rogdmum · 09/03/2023 22:30

It sounds like people (who have been steadfastly ignoring all the concerns previously raised to them) are now busy trying to shift blame- the whole “Mistakes Were Made- But Not by Me”.

It’s good to have another influential voice talking about it, but I’m unclear as to why not having a ceiling on what was taught meant Ofsted was unable to get involved in clear safeguarding breaches.

2fallsfromSSA · 09/03/2023 22:30

Seainasive · 09/03/2023 13:52

School Governor here. I actually think that head teachers and governors have been put in a really difficult position. There is real pressure from some parents to affirm their child’s ‘gender identity’, and precious little guidance from the D of E on how to deal with conflicting views. And as they have so many other serious issues to deal with, the temptation to just copy a Mermaids approved Trans Policy document is real.

I agree schools have been met down by DfE but this is where their safeguarding frameworks and training should have kicked in and sone professional curiosity shown.

2fallsfromSSA · 09/03/2023 22:27

ResisterRex · 09/03/2023 21:08

SSAUK have an example they've provided a journalist seemingly unable to check for himself. And it got restricted by Twitter due to the content. But it's fine for kids in schools?

https://twitter.com/safeschoolsuk/status/1633929680658022403?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Yes. We could not believe the awful irony.

Swipe left for the next trending thread