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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miriam Cates report on RSE

109 replies

RPMcMurphy · 09/03/2023 09:30

Starting a new thread as this report is being discussed in others and I think it needs a thread of its own.

Report available here:
www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf

Lots of media attention around it, even mainstream TV news, and plenty of press.

(Not) to my surprise, there is quite a bit of pushback on social media, of the usual 'it isn't happening, and even if it is it's only in a few schools, and even if it is in a lot of schools who cares you are all pearl-clutching bigots'.

Also unsurprised by the response of head teachers, given the numerous reports here on Mumsnet about their behaviour when parents express concerns:
“Head teachers said they were unhappy about the review. James Bowen, director of policy the National Association of Head Teachers, said: “It is hard to be anything other than deeply concerned by this announcement.”"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fb68df7c-bdc4-11ed-8959-aac6a1130ac2?shareToken=bf5da7c9d4de81e288a9d29fa865ba99

Please please please write to your MP, ccing the Pm and Gillian Keegan to say you support this review and that it must be quick and independent. Let them know that this is popular!

Do not allow the naysayers to have the loudest voices.

OP posts:
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SinnerBoy · 18/03/2023 01:39

LittleFingerStrength · Yesterday 23:56

I'm just lost for words, really.

LittleFingerStrength · 17/03/2023 23:59

All these politicians keen on trans ideology and their famililes, strange coincidence.

www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/edward-mordaunt-called-himself-teddy-24965214

LittleFingerStrength · 17/03/2023 23:56

SinnerBoy · 17/03/2023 23:53

ResisterRex · 13/03/2023 15:43

Meanwhile over in Wales...

Why on Earth do they invest so much time and effort into this, for the tiniest group? Not to even mention that it's complete and utter fantasy, with no basis in bloody reality.

Whistles

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45600558

SinnerBoy · 17/03/2023 23:53

ResisterRex · 13/03/2023 15:43

Meanwhile over in Wales...

Why on Earth do they invest so much time and effort into this, for the tiniest group? Not to even mention that it's complete and utter fantasy, with no basis in bloody reality.

birchtreeglow · 17/03/2023 23:48

I forgot, this school has what I would call mixed sex toilets. Though they are 'cubicles'. Three marked for boys, three marked for girls. Sinks are communal. Glass wall, so staff can observe.

birchtreeglow · 17/03/2023 23:32

@RPMcMurphy Thank you for posting a link to the report commissioned by Miriam Cates MP. I'd seen the headlines etc and now I've finally read it. I must admit that I found it a very difficult read.

I read it midst compiling a document with screen shots of a secondary academy's public FB page, which, I believe demonstrates that the school
lacks political impartiality and appears to have completely accepted and also teaches contested theories as fact, including genders and use of pronouns. One of the resources they use is mentioned more than once in Cates report.

I only started looking at this school as someone (reliable) informed me that they have a large 'Stonewall School Champion' poster displayed in school. That they are a SW Champion is not mentioned on the school website or the Academy Trusts website. I don't have a child at that school and it is not in my constituency, so the school is not one that I could write to my MP about, but I thought I could possibly compile links and send the screen shots to Miriam Cates. Anyone think that's a good idea?

The schools Twitter feed shows the same info as FB, both the Twiter feed and FB page are public, am I allowed to share the Twitter here? Not sure if I would be breaking any forum rules if I did that? Could someone better versed in the forum etiquette advise?

For example, the school posted regarding IWD this year, and part of their post states "At [XXX] School we strive for equity for students of all genders" Not 'both genders', so even if they were conflating sex and gender, surely it wouldn't refer to 'all genders'.

Last year, they used 'Just Like Us' (mentioned in the Cates report) resources for LGBTQ+ and the theme 'being an ally' and showed 'mini posters' by the students regarding 'what they could do', on one of those, a student (they are all anon) has written "add my pronouns to my social media".

I also plan to look at the websites of schools local to me, to see if anything jumps out, if it does, then I will be able to compile and send to my local MP.

ResisterRex · 13/03/2023 15:43

Meanwhile over in Wales...

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/12/welsh-sex-education-lessons-tell-children-young-seven-100-genders/

"... the Telegraph has obtained the Agenda pamphlet, which was produced by Cardiff University academics in partnership with the Welsh government, the Children's Commissioner for Wales and charities, and targeted at seven to 18-year-olds.

The Welsh government logo is listed on the pamphlet and Kirsty Williams, who was the Welsh education minister until 2021, said it had been “hugely successful and has been used widely throughout Waless_”.
A section on gender identity recommends that teachers play the “mixed-muffin gender berry challenge” to learn about “how you can't assume someone’s gender by how they look”.
In the game, teachers are urged to make batches of blueberry muffins to represent stereotypes of masculinity, raspberry muffins to represent stereotypes of femininity, and mixed muffins “to represent gender fluidity”.
Staff are then told to break open the muffins and stand alongside a corresponding coloured balloon in a room - but there are only blue and pink balloons, with no mixed balloons.
The moral of the story is to experience “what it felt like to go to a gender-coded corner that they might not identify with” and “what it feels like to be given a gender you might not choose”.
The pamphlet also recommends that teachers play a "gender-snap pairs" game where they "decide which sex-switching or gender-bending worlds you want to explore" to "crack open a little bit of those rigid gender binaries"."

FML

ResisterRex · 13/03/2023 08:20

The Times view today:

The Times view on sex education in schools: Wild West

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d6853466-c112-11ed-89bb-9ee8b04f3f4c?shareToken=09a2dd4827ab9f2ee3c1ca5ad67b1767

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2023 20:08

ScrollingLeaves · 12/03/2023 19:55

I saw from the Daily Mail article that the drag queens on the Isle of Mann are denying that one of them gave a lesson at the school.

If that story is not true. I wonder why parents are not also saying it is untrue?

Drag queens have found a major source of grifting from "entertaining" unconsenting children with their adult entertainment . It wouldn't surprise me to find that one travelled to the I of M in order to share their inaccurate, fact and science denying beliefs.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/03/2023 19:55

I saw from the Daily Mail article that the drag queens on the Isle of Mann are denying that one of them gave a lesson at the school.

If that story is not true. I wonder why parents are not also saying it is untrue?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2023 13:58

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 13:42

I agree. BUT...whenever the consultation comes, it needs parents taking part en masse AND copying their MPs/giving them copies of their responses. There's no way we're out of the woods yet so far as this and the department responsible is concerned.

Completely agree. This is a shitshow of epic proportions.
The main problem is that schools, unions, the DfE and even Ofsted are / were captured by Stonewall - who's main aim is to remove single sex resources, language and facts from life. Add to that their insistence that in order to be a Stonewall champion institutions must actively promote gender ideology as facts - even to the youngest of children - dragging these predatory values out of schools will be a massive task.
Institutions will deny deny deny as to admit active involvement in pushing gender ideology at children and selling porn to children below the age of consent will make them culpable in the face of all the future investigations -including criminal charges.

SinnerBoy · 12/03/2023 13:57

Cailin66 · Today 09:18

We know what’s taught in maths class as our children have the books. Also maths is not controversial.

Are you sure? My 9 year old tells me that algebra is abuse!

😄

SinnerBoy · 12/03/2023 13:55

From the Times article, in the header:

“Many of the resources used would make adults deeply uncomfortable, especially if they were expected to view them in their place of work. It is unconscionable that our children are being forced to engage with such disturbing materials in school.”

The letter said that many schools refused to allow parents to view lesson materials in advance, adding: “Exposing children to explicit materials and radical ideologies is not a victory for equality; it is a catastrophe for safeguarding.”

And some of the schools are hiding it behind the excuse of "commercial confidentiality." I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that they're riding a tiger and are too scared to let go; they know exactly why the don't want parents to see the awful material they are presenting. If we showed rubbish like that to our own children, a visit from the authorities would ensue.

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 13:44

Not England but the Isle of Man story in the MoS:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11848247/Furious-mother-speaks-school-embroiled-Drag-Queen-gender-row-gave-graphic-sex-lessons.html

"EXCLUSIVE: Mother speaks out after 11-year-old daughter given 'graphic' lesson"

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 13:42

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2023 13:37

If you look at all the comments below the line, it's evident that parents (and hopefully many teachers) are waking up to what's happened. This in itself will begin to put a break on some of the dangerous sex positive / porn soaked adults and materials being allowed into schools. And make it easier for teachers to challenge what's happening.

I agree. BUT...whenever the consultation comes, it needs parents taking part en masse AND copying their MPs/giving them copies of their responses. There's no way we're out of the woods yet so far as this and the department responsible is concerned.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2023 13:37

If you look at all the comments below the line, it's evident that parents (and hopefully many teachers) are waking up to what's happened. This in itself will begin to put a break on some of the dangerous sex positive / porn soaked adults and materials being allowed into schools. And make it easier for teachers to challenge what's happening.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2023 13:35

ValancyRedfern · 12/03/2023 12:26

Absolutely. My deputy head accused me of wanting all trans people dead because I questioned teaching gender identity as fact.

And that's the hyperbole (and intimidation) that surrounds all this.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/03/2023 13:25

However, the source said that existing guidance on political impartiality in schools meant that teachers already had a duty not to teach contested theories as fact. This would apply to any teaching on issues relating to “types of genders” or use of pronouns, they said.

There are some inherent problems about ‘facts’ to deal with, given schools are supposed to teach the protected characteristics of the Equality Act. One of the characteristic, Gender Reassignment, brings in the idea of a subjective reality. How can this be taught without teachers being in danger of teaching contested theories about sex and gender? They definitely need a specific book to follow. Winging it won’t work.

ValancyRedfern · 12/03/2023 12:26

HipTightOnions · 12/03/2023 11:15

However, the source said that existing guidance on political impartiality in schools meant that teachers already had a duty not to teach contested theories as fact. This would apply to any teaching on issues relating to “types of genders” or use of pronouns, they said.

The trouble is that many teachers do not see it as a contested theory or a political issue. They think it is all just true.

Absolutely. My deputy head accused me of wanting all trans people dead because I questioned teaching gender identity as fact.

Datun · 12/03/2023 11:49

HipTightOnions · 12/03/2023 11:15

However, the source said that existing guidance on political impartiality in schools meant that teachers already had a duty not to teach contested theories as fact. This would apply to any teaching on issues relating to “types of genders” or use of pronouns, they said.

The trouble is that many teachers do not see it as a contested theory or a political issue. They think it is all just true.

Quiet. And if they're doing it when it goes against guidelines, can they be sued?

There must be recourse otherwise they could indoctrinate children in whatever the hell they like.

HipTightOnions · 12/03/2023 11:15

However, the source said that existing guidance on political impartiality in schools meant that teachers already had a duty not to teach contested theories as fact. This would apply to any teaching on issues relating to “types of genders” or use of pronouns, they said.

The trouble is that many teachers do not see it as a contested theory or a political issue. They think it is all just true.

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 10:14

"Ceilings" plan reported in the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/11/sex-education-classes-given-ceilings-limiting-what-pupils-certain/

"Sex education classes could be given "ceilings" limiting what school pupils of a certain age can be taught under plans being considered by the Department for Education, The Telegraph can reveal.
The aim of the revised guidance would be to take a “more robust” approach on the use of materials to “make sure reliably that no one is being taught things that aren’t age appropriatee_”, a DfE source said.
The department would have to strike a “balance” to make sure that pupils continue to receive “the education they need to be safe”, they added.
However, the source said that existing guidance on political impartiality in schools meant that teachers already had a duty not to teach contested theories as fact.
This would apply to any teaching on issues relating to “types of genders” or use of pronouns, they said."

With a quote from Policy Exchange:

"Mr Lehain told The Telegraph: "All school curriculums have limits on what they cover. This might be because of the time available, pupils' ability to properly understand an issue, or because it's just not appropriate for a teacher to be the one introducing it. It's the case in history or RE, and no different for sex ed too.

“For instance, the guidance as it stands has no mention of sexual pleasure or the infinite range of possible sexual acts. This was deliberate, as anything that is statutory needs the maximum consensus behind it, and as soon as you wade on to issues like masturbation or 'rough anonymous sex' (as per an infamous textbook), large swathes of people would withdraw their support.”
He added: “Perhaps just as importantly, intimate subjects like these are almost impossible to discuss without embarrassing or humiliating pupilss_, or putting teachers at risk of accusations of inappropriate behaviour.
“We just have to accept that with sex ed, as for other subjects, some things can't be taught in school safely or sensibly.""

And now it looks like the review is a "first phase". How many phases are there to be? We don't know. Also no timelines given. Again:

"The first phase of the DfE review will include gathering evidence on what materials are currently being used in schools, with the department then launching a consultation process on changes to the guidance, which could come later this year."

Consultation could come later this year. When? December? And by implication, it could never come.

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 09:29

NAHT:

Sex education review launched by Sunak

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fb68df7c-bdc4-11ed-8959-aac6a1130ac2?shareToken=492b784275b819814df9911773b44ed0

"Head teachers said they were unhappy about the review. James Bowen, director of policy the National Association of Head Teachers, said: “It is hard to be anything other than deeply concerned by this announcement.

“The overwhelming majority of schools are doing nothing more than following the government’s own statutory guidance when it comes to relationships and sex education. The current curriculum was subject to extensive consultation before it was introduced.

“We have seen no evidence to suggest there is a widespread problem with pupils being presented with age-inappropriate materials and if this were the situation, we would expect it to have been picked up on a case-by-case basis.

“There is a real concern that this is a politically motivated review, rather than one based on the reality of what is happening in the vast majority of schools up and down the country. Our appeal to government is to ensure this review is now handled with the care, sensitivity and impartiality it requires and to listen carefully to the voices of education professionals and pupils.”"

More on NAHT:

www.naht.org.uk/About-Us/Organisations-we-support/Diversity-Role-Models

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/06/18/love-has-no-age-a-letter-to-asda/

ResisterRex · 12/03/2023 09:28

That's true that we get Maths books home. I guess I meant it more as the kind of line that will be trotted out as reasons why schools "can't". Well, ours (along with a lot of school, I notice!) spends a good deal of time arsing about on Twitter so they definitely can upload things. So it can be published if there's a will to do so.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/03/2023 09:22

I linked the crowd funder. I had forgotten that is not allowed.

The Asdiciation of Head Teachers is dubious - not a voice of reason against stupid, troubled parents.Ask @ResisterRex.