Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4

It's surely just him, effectively, putting his fingers in his ears and shouting, "La la la, transphobe, transphobe!". How dare you even bring that up, you awful bigot. No debate.

The moment a man uses the word "shrill" to describe the way a woman has just spoken, almost always without an ounce of shrill in their voice, he is put into my basement of entitled bastards who should shut the actual fuck up. Forever. I am so over "shrill".

I'm also not sure what he means by dog whistle in this context, although it's a phrase he seems quite fond of. She was very upfront with what she was asking, there was no agenda, just do women's rights count for anything. He's been right in the past about the UK government's small boats bollocks, that's blatant dog whistle politics, the question he was asked, not at all.

(Especially as it has since changed ownership, and I'd not want to cause any problems for the new - much more reasonable - owners.)

A group of us decamped here en masse from another talkboard that had a longstanding misogyny problem and eventually made it offensively explicit that anyone with gender critical views was unwelcome.

It's a small private board, so I'd rather not name it even by DM.

I keep seeing references to "The Old Place" and I have no clue where you mean. Could someone explain please (by DM if there are specific reasons why you don't want to mention it by name)?

Yes, I cited a friend of mine in a university where they'd had to disband a support group for women who'd been sexually abused as a trans woman insisted on attending and women no longer felt happy to share in the different environment

In the Old Place, this gets the "you shouldn't be using isolated examples" treatment. It's all Tory culture war, apparently.

Madrigal-Borloz is the one the SNP spoke to several times about GRR, I think.

Interesting (and quite short) report from an LGBA meeting with Madrigal-Borloz, UN Independent Expert on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity.... Proper TRSOH sort of chap.

https://twitter.com/AllianceLGB/status/1656310428388007936?s=20

Interesting thread - there's a poster on it who has been involved in the assessment panels to decide where prisoners should be housed: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4801037-ex-prison-officer-guilty-of-possession-of-csa-images-referred-to-transgender-case-board

I read an article on Unherd titled (if I recall correctly) Animals Trapped In Human Bodies. There is a name for them, therians. It was an interesting article and I enjoyed the difference between them and the more radical trans activists. Some therians are also trans and unsurprisingly the trans movement are not keen on therians. At all. Sorry that I don't have the link on my phone but it's a very recent article and worth a read.

@weaseleyes , I feel a bit sorry for her because she's drunk the Kool-Aid so now, when it comes to this topic, she's been robbed of critical thinking. I agree with her that there is a lot of right wing support on TWSOH, but most of them are unaware of the right wing money and support on TRSOH. I just hope for her, and the many women like her that they're not ever in a position where they have to face how wrong they are because they need a refuge or a crisis centre or ... and are stuck in a group of men who think they do woman better than actual women and whose male privilege demands that it's all about them.

I think it's easy to hold the be kind position when you're life is pretty middle class and comfortable and most of the women who've drunk the Kool-Aid have that life.

I read the SUFW response, it was accurate and concise, covered everything in a reasonable fashion. I don't expect that it will get much publicity, more's the pity.

She was just disappointed in me being self-evidently wrong.

I think this is where we need to gently ask them to explain what we're getting wrong. She almost certainly won't be able to give reasoned answers so i wouldn't push too hard if you want to keep things friendly. But you wil be planting seeds of doubt.

File on 4 has just trailed tonight's episode which is entitled "Sex education: Too much too young?"

"The government has brought forward a review into how sex education is taught in schools in England following concerns that children across the country are being taught lessons on oral sex, how to choke your partner safely and 72 genders as part of their RSE."

If you're interested, it'll be available online here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001lqnk

@duc748, one response so far, from someone who very occasionally posts here, who was a member at the other place, and she was agreeing with what was said.

That's exactly the response I'm expecting if the subject comes up with a very woke friend of mine. I'm dreading it.

I find it so baffling because my friend genuinely is a lovely, good and empathic person. We didn't fall out, but her tone in talking to me was kind of - I don't really want to talk about it, but if you insist - then a sort of weary pity, like she was really sorry to have to explain this to me. It was faintly condescending, like I was her grandmother who a bit racist in private. I was also struck by the fact that we weren't debating an issue like we would any other topic where we had different views. She was just disappointed in me being self-evidently wrong. I'd be saying things like 'I can see where you're coming from on a and b, but on c and d...' - the kind of things you say to debate but keep civility and bridges in the process, whereas she did none of that.

Her reply was a/ if we disagree on this we shouldn't really talk about it b/ it's all a right wing conspiracy and they're weaponising the debate c/ opposing groups are all funded by the right wing d/ her daughters have lovely friends who are they/their and wear unusual clothes - perhaps I don't know enough trans people? e/ any problems I cited were usually just student pranks.

That's exactly what I hear from the friend who refuses to discuss this issue with me.

Yeah but when it comes to the point where you're excusing a male getting a rape crisis support group shut down as a prank just to avoid dealing with the reality, I mean, how can you see yourself as a good, kind or empathetic person?

I know it wasn't you, btw, I'm just infurious (infuriated+curious, I'm trying to make it happen).

It's like this

Her reply was a/ if we disagree on this we shouldn't really talk about it b/ it's all a right wing conspiracy and they're weaponising the debate c/ opposing groups are all funded by the right wing d/ her daughters have lovely friends who are they/their and wear unusual clothes - perhaps I don't know enough trans people? e/ any problems I cited were usually just student pranks.

is a template. Heard/seen that so many times.

I'm astonished that a woman could describe that as a prank. Astonished. What has happened to women?