Why can't I claim I'm black or disabled, but can claim I'm a bloke?

“Gaucher disease is considerably more common in the descendants of Jewish people from Eastern Europe (Ashkenazi), although individuals from any ethnic group may be affected.”

Not unique to any group.

The marriage practices of Ashkenazi Jews are likely to be the reason a genetic variation has become more common in that group. But it can emerge in any group.

Sometimes by acting as if race is real we create the effects that convince us we were right all the time. It doesn’t mean races are like genetically distinct almost subspecies of human.

The answer is, the world has gone completely mad.

But crucially, in all the research, any specific genetic modifications are not unique to that group. They have evolved in other populations and in other places for various reasons.

There are tonnes of genes involved in skin colour. Or nose shape. Or whatever physical characteristic we might want to use to biologically define a group. But you’ll find those genes all over the place. It seems obvious to us that there should be a clear biological distinction, so we insist there really is.

The inaccurate idea that some races are biologically just different of at the basis of loads of racist practices.

Humans are sexually dimorphic for reproductive reasons. Anything we might want to call race is an entirely different thing, with completely different biological parameters and an entirely different social context.

Weirdly, the deep seated idea that race is more biologically real than sex lies at the heart of lots of racist and sexist practices. We are desperate to affirm the fussy and problematic biological difference that underpins racial identity and deny the much clearer biological difference that is a problem for gender identity.

The aspects that we might call ethnicity - shared culture, shared history, shared oppressions - are much more important to understanding racism and race identification than any biology. The biological differences are at least as important as that in understanding sexism and misogyny.

There are no genes that are specific to any race.

If a ‘race’ looks different then there will be genes that control that. There are also other genetic adaptations eg. to high altitude. There are genetic diseases specific to certain races or population groups, eg Gaucher disease, and propensity for (or higher protection from) other diseases. Of course, unless they are a very isolated race these genes will have spread into the wider population at much lower levels.

The genetic variation within racial groups is greater than any differences you might find between the groups

That would depend on how you classify a racial group and which group you chose. Many small Isolated populations have very limited genetic variation.

I am old enough to remember a time when if people claimed to be something they were not, the answer would have been to have a mental health check because they were considered delusional...

As in: if someone suddenly woke up one day and claimed to be a different race/age/gender or consider themselves to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra, the practical assumption would be that something had gone wrong and that they would need a health check, not that everyone else should join into the delusion.

That said, I have no issue with people who cross-dress and/or want to make their appearance/body closer to what they see as being feminine (which is usually a cliched/exaggerated version of what they consider a woman to be) and I would not want anyone to be discriminated because of it or face any kind of aggression.

But I have an issue with them then demanding that I then consider them to be a woman, as I am, and that they should have access to women's spaces.

If you were born a man and have a penis you are not magically going to become a biological woman one day.

I think people's tolerance snap when they are asked to believe the unbelievable and start being demonised for having different views.

They’re not the same thing.

Race is more problematic as a concept. It’s a set of social categories that the Victorians organised hierarchically to pretend there are subspecies of humanity. There aren’t.

Race is not a coherent biological category. The genetics and physical characteristics vary far too much, and tend to have evolved in various ways in all sorts of different places and groups. The genetic variation within racial groups is greater than any differences you might find between the groups. There are no genes that are specific to any race.

Whereas sex has an obvious biological component, that you can find in every single cell of the body.

Having a sunflower lanyard conveys no special treatment or consideration. It is meaningless.

There was a documentary on Netflix about a white woman who identified as a black American woman.

@DeeCeeCherry yes. And I've been thinking a bit more about it. It's also control. The powerful group can discriminate against a less powerful group. They can exclude them or in extreme cases want to get rid of them. However men and women need each other. Men have to acknowledge the power women have as their mothers, the mothers of their children and they also desire women, so they have to control them in a way that they don't need to control any other group. Some men feel frustrated by women's power over them.

I'm not saying for a moment that all or even most men think like this but it's what occurs to me when I think about the need of some to take on the identity of another group.

Gender ideology is another way for men to own women by owning womanhood.

Why can't I claim I'm black or disabled, but can claim I'm a bloke?

Because White Male Born & Socialised Privilege trumps all, which you all studiously choose not to mention in the endless posts and discussions on this topic.

Black is a protected characteristic? Really? Have you never heard of excessive stop and search, police brutality, institutional discrimination, the Windrush scandal, and more? You know...all the nasty insidious tentacles of racism?

As for 'Disability' - disabled people are almost invisible in this society. It's not made easy for them to move around, access employment etc

All these flippant 'yeah but if I were Black/Disabled' style posts lead me to believe there's no real point to make.

If the elephant in the room can't or won't be seen then what's the point, really.

There is a bloke already identifying as a disabled woman.

www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23101806.issue-day-able-bodied-norwegian-identifies-disabled-woman/

I didn't notice anyone in the thread "take the piss" out of disabled people. You seem to be getting worked up for no reason.

As for black people, I'm guessing many of them will agree that it's a fair example to bring up in this context.

The answer is simple. It is Sex, advantage and sheer force of numbers. There will always be a few white people who want to identify as black or able bodied people who want to identify as disabled for a range of reasons. However, not that many. And it doesn't benefit anyone that much to do this beyond their own personal motives. But LOTS of men find it sexy to identify as women and they are the ones with the power.

It is therefore easy for people to quite reasonably say that it is unacceptable to identify as something you are not when it comes to race or disability, but when it comes to sex, there is a huge number of people with the inclination and the power to push this agenda. Then add in the element of homophobia, the number of people who have a vested interest in making money from medical transition and others who want to trample women's boundaries and you have a very large number of people who are pushing their agenda onto others, despite it being just as ridiculous as any other identity.

It probably won’t happen in my lifetime but I look forward to the time when classifying people by “race” is consigned to the dustbin of history. Whether it was s.Africa deciding on the exact level of discrimination you faced depending on how “black” you were or nazi germany determining your level of Jewishness depending on how many of your ancestors were Jewish, ultimately I think we will realise quite how absurd it is to separate people according to how their DNA is expressed in skin colour or physical features.

Sorry @Quveas that was supposed to have more than a ? Attached I don't know where the rest went. I was meant to say was this aimed at anyone in particular or just in general?

I don't think any of this is that clear cut, just like we know what a woman is but an exact definition is hard to pin down, race and disability are the same.

Eg arthritis can be a fairly minor ailment or have life changing impacts, at what point does it 'qualify' as a disability?

If a child is adopted by a family of another race and grows up surrounded by a particular culture, do they really have no claim on it?

?

I think different races and abilities have more in common than men and women so it doesn't make sense. Surprised identifying as a different age isn't a bigger thing too (though that could be very dangerous if it became widespread)

I think it is partly because the rest are considered minorities. Women are an unusual thing in that we're an oppressed majority. So it doesn't matter because there's plenty of us for some reason? There's probably a psychological answer. I don't agree with it, I don't think you should be able to identify as anything you aren't. It's suggesting a mysterious inner essence is more important than facts

Dave Chapelle did an excellent stand up routine on exactly this subject.

How fucking offensive can you get? You are welcome to my blue badge, my PIP and my disability. Perhaps making your political point makes it worth taking the piss out of people with disabilities. You are disgusting.

I'll leave it for black people to tell you what they think of your comparison.

Ah, that is cultural. You have Deaf people who are part of the community from childhood and are raised with BSL as their main language. Then you have people who are raised with spoken English and go deaf or hearing impaired when they are older. The second group usually muddle by with a mix of lipreading, hearing aids, subtitles and robust denial!

BSL has been around for centuries (it pops up in records dating back to 1576) but the language was only officially recognised last year.

The thing is in this country it is incredibly difficult to get the nhs to remove non working body parts when attached to a person, never mind healthy ones. Otherwise I'd only have nine toes now and wouldn't have to put up with the annoying constantly painful tenth one. It's useless. It's painful, the blood doesn't get to it so it always looks like it's about to drop off. But the nhs refuse to remove it. Yet a kid can say they think they are a man and get their breasts cut off no problems (yes I know it's not quite that easy but not far off).

Maybe I should identify as a trans 9 toed person. I can only be my true sekf if I change my pronouns and get my left small toe removed?

It’s because “woman” has been untethered from material reality like biological facts and has been redefined to mean a thought or feeling in the mind. Anyone can have this thought/feeling ergo anyone can be a woman. On the other hand, race and disability are still grounded in objective facts that can be true or false. It’s not just a subjective mental state that’s up for grabs.

a good question would be why only womanhood has become a feeling whereas every other identity is still fact based. and I think it’s because it suits male desires to decide what a woman is, and they dont think women will object. Unfortunately women have been “kind” and allowed this redefinition to happen , whereas other minority groups have strongly resisted any attempt at self identification and have called out such people as frauds (like Rachel dolezal)