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NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions

68 replies

Thatsenoughinternetfortoday · 03/03/2023 13:36

It’s census time in NZ and the forms are asking for ‘gender identity’ and ‘sex at birth’. Unlike the question for religion, which provides an option to object to answering the question, the options for the gender question are ‘male’, ‘ female’ and ‘another gender’ with no option to object to the question or say you don’t have a gender/don’t believe in gender.

Stats NZ have said that if you don’t fill out the gender question (which can’t be skipped online; you need a paper form to skip it) they will complete your gender for you using other data. As one tweet about this points out, this means we’ll have an “assigned gender at census”.

Also alarming to see that the official position from the census people is that ‘ a person’s sex can change over the course of their lifetime’…

There is a movement to boycott the census entirely.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
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TomPinch · 04/03/2023 05:03

user1477391263 · 04/03/2023 03:01

The government and culture of NZ seem to be unduly influenced by post-modernist twaddle in general. I see someone has already referenced the nutty science curriculum for schools.

I agree, notwithstanding the views I have expressed on the census issue.

A small group of ideologues are making this country look ridiculous.

TomPinch · 04/03/2023 04:35

SomersetONeil · 04/03/2023 03:11

I think it’s the fact that the gender question comes before the sex question, that the gender question will be automatically filled in on your behalf if you don’t answer it, and there’s no ‘object to answer’ option, as with the religion question. To name a few issues….

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That depends on what they've said they'll use to 'fill in' the blank. Have they said how they'll do it? What if they simply copy across the answer to sex at birth? World you object to that?

TomPinch · 04/03/2023 04:33

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 04/03/2023 03:25

Asking for one's sex "at birth" implies recognition that one's sex can't be changed.

On the contrary, it implies that ones sex at birth cn be different from ones sex at another time.

But they are not asking about it at any other time, meaning they don't regard it as worth asking about.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 04/03/2023 03:25

Asking for one's sex "at birth" implies recognition that one's sex can't be changed.

On the contrary, it implies that ones sex at birth cn be different from ones sex at another time.

SomersetONeil · 04/03/2023 03:11

TomPinch · 04/03/2023 02:42

I'm not sure this is a problem.

The two separate questions implicitly recognise that sex is one thing and gender is another.

Asking for one's sex "at birth" implies recognition that one's sex can't be changed.

I expect the Dept of Statistics is well aware of the bloody nose that the UK census got in court a few years ago* as that judgement would be certainly be cited in any court proceedings here, and this is why they have two seperate questions.

*Lots of people here will know this, but the UK census, on the advice of Stonewall, said that whether one was male or female should be answered by reference to gender identity alone. This was held to be unlawful.

I think it’s the fact that the gender question comes before the sex question, that the gender question will be automatically filled in on your behalf if you don’t answer it, and there’s no ‘object to answer’ option, as with the religion question. To name a few issues….

SomersetONeil · 04/03/2023 03:08

I got the email from SUFW NZ about this a few days ago, and have submitted a query to Census NZ asking them what I should do if I don’t have a gender identity, along with a few other questions. Still waiting to hear back

user1477391263 · 04/03/2023 03:01

The government and culture of NZ seem to be unduly influenced by post-modernist twaddle in general. I see someone has already referenced the nutty science curriculum for schools.

TomPinch · 04/03/2023 02:42

I'm not sure this is a problem.

The two separate questions implicitly recognise that sex is one thing and gender is another.

Asking for one's sex "at birth" implies recognition that one's sex can't be changed.

I expect the Dept of Statistics is well aware of the bloody nose that the UK census got in court a few years ago* as that judgement would be certainly be cited in any court proceedings here, and this is why they have two seperate questions.

*Lots of people here will know this, but the UK census, on the advice of Stonewall, said that whether one was male or female should be answered by reference to gender identity alone. This was held to be unlawful.

GourmetLettuceMix · 04/03/2023 00:17

I haven't filled ours out yet but I believe the gender question comes before the sex question (please correct me if I'm wrong), which is confusing in itself. I don't want it assigned to me so I think I'll go for "another gender" and let them work out what to do with that information. Will also do this for my four kids who are "kidgender" and not covered by the other options.

Igneococcus · 03/03/2023 21:18

That should be absolutely fine @Thatsenoughinternetfortoday just self-ID as "absent" and have a meltdown if someone dares question it.

Original poster
Thatsenoughinternetfortoday · 03/03/2023 20:56

@Igneococcus I think I’ll save myself the money on hot air balloon hire and simply identify as being out of the country on 7 March. Presumably that will suffice.

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Igneococcus · 03/03/2023 18:35

I lived in NZ during the 1996 census and I remember it well because Graeme Cairns (who I sort of knew) of the McGillicuddy Serious Party spent census day hovering above NZ (well, the Waikato mainly) in a hot air balloon to avoid being counted. Maybe it's time for the women of NZ to take to the skies in protest.

Original poster
Thatsenoughinternetfortoday · 03/03/2023 18:20

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn Funnily enough I haven’t seen those particular questions!

@TheBiologyStupid thanks and yep, a disgrace.

I had (naively) hoped for better in the census as they had sought opinions via a public consultation a few years ago. At that time I seem to remember they had intended to only ask about gender.

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nepeta · 03/03/2023 16:22

So male and female are now genders? Yet sometimes they are supposed to be the two sexes?

TheBiologyStupid · 03/03/2023 16:14

And a tweet about boycotting the census: twitter.com/SpeakUp4WomenNZ/status/1630298045043863552

TheBiologyStupid · 03/03/2023 16:08

Disgraceful - NZ is sadly getting more ridiculous by the day (the new science curriculum is a case in point).

Anyway, here's an archived copy of the Twitter thread mentioned above: archive.ph/hUVgd

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 03/03/2023 15:01

I note that they haven't decided how they will assign a gender if you skip that question, only that they may include your sex at birth as part of the information they use.

I hope there are also questions on favorite colours, skirt-swishing ability, number of trousers owned, amount of time spent pouting, ability to change a car tyre, and angle of head tilt - otherwise I really don't see how they can possibly work it out.

JacquelinePot · 03/03/2023 15:00

That's appalling!