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NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions

68 replies

Thatsenoughinternetfortoday · 03/03/2023 13:36

It’s census time in NZ and the forms are asking for ‘gender identity’ and ‘sex at birth’. Unlike the question for religion, which provides an option to object to answering the question, the options for the gender question are ‘male’, ‘ female’ and ‘another gender’ with no option to object to the question or say you don’t have a gender/don’t believe in gender.

Stats NZ have said that if you don’t fill out the gender question (which can’t be skipped online; you need a paper form to skip it) they will complete your gender for you using other data. As one tweet about this points out, this means we’ll have an “assigned gender at census”.

Also alarming to see that the official position from the census people is that ‘ a person’s sex can change over the course of their lifetime’…

There is a movement to boycott the census entirely.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
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Grammarnut · 04/03/2023 14:24

GourmetLettuceMix · 04/03/2023 10:33

I've just seen this on FB

I misread 'Not religious' as 'not clitorious' - very small print and my eyes not so good these days. Like very much 'Narcissistic Specialgender' I think it means a TiM.

TheBiologyStupid · 04/03/2023 11:38

GourmetLettuceMix · 04/03/2023 10:33

I've just seen this on FB

That's great - I love "Narcissist Specialgender"!

TheBiologyStupid · 04/03/2023 11:31

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:04

NZ is so, so lost that there is a complete media blackout on even discussing the issues.

Richard Dawkins (he has talked about it quite often in that past year) most recent comments on the science curriculum were not covered at all until today when they managed to find someone to accuse him of ‘enabling racists’.

There had been absolutely no discussion in the media of the problematic nature of switching to ‘gender identity’ in the census. We lack both a broadsheet like The Times and a populist paper like The Daily Mail that are prepared to cover these issues. The issue is further complicated by the fact during Covid the govt. began partially funding the media.

Dawkins has just left after a trip to NZ - he's written about the science /MM issue here: archive.ph/7t6Yw

GourmetLettuceMix · 04/03/2023 10:35

@cosmiccosmos self ID becomes law in June.

GourmetLettuceMix · 04/03/2023 10:33

I've just seen this on FB

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
Waitwhat23 · 04/03/2023 09:40

The Scottish census in 2021 allowed for self identification of sex as well as a gender question, making the information gathered utterly pointless. Many of us requested paper copies in order to protest the futility of gathering information which does not reflect reality. Along with the poor and late rate of returns for forms across Scotland generally, it became an embarrassing sore point for the Scottish Government -

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hundreds-take-part-gender-critical-27753863

cosmiccosmos · 04/03/2023 09:33

Oh dear, they really are captured. I find it strange that they think it's ok to complete a question for a respondent, if they do this what else will they deem to be acceptable to 'guess' for the respondent?

If decisions of national importance are going to made using census data then thus could be bad for the country. With a population of only 5.5m surely it'll only take small changes in data to give completely the wrong picture.

Dies NZ have self id? If so women wanting ti take a stance could put they are male. I know no-one wants to 'stoop thus low' but sometimes needs must if it's the only way to get heard.

GrouchyKiwi · 04/03/2023 09:29

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:26

There is a write in option but unless you chose the male or female gender option it will be coded as ‘another gender’.

That's absolute bullshit.

FrancescaContini · 04/03/2023 09:28

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:09

This is the list of the gender options.

I don’t think unfortunately @FrancescaContini it will peak many because there will be no media discussion of what these changes mean.

OMFG at the list

This is from the GOVERNMENT?

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:27

left this off -

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:26

There is a write in option but unless you chose the male or female gender option it will be coded as ‘another gender’.

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
GrouchyKiwi · 04/03/2023 09:11

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:09

This is the list of the gender options.

I don’t think unfortunately @FrancescaContini it will peak many because there will be no media discussion of what these changes mean.

If you select "Other" do you get a write in?

GrouchyKiwi · 04/03/2023 09:10

These issues are one reason why we're not moving back to NZ, despite really wanting to while we were home last month. It's utterly batshit and I don't want to bring up my 3 daughters in such an environment (not that Scotland is much better, but at least there's plenty of pushback now).

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:09

This is the list of the gender options.

I don’t think unfortunately @FrancescaContini it will peak many because there will be no media discussion of what these changes mean.

NZ Census 2023 - sex and gender questions
LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 09:04

NZ is so, so lost that there is a complete media blackout on even discussing the issues.

Richard Dawkins (he has talked about it quite often in that past year) most recent comments on the science curriculum were not covered at all until today when they managed to find someone to accuse him of ‘enabling racists’.

There had been absolutely no discussion in the media of the problematic nature of switching to ‘gender identity’ in the census. We lack both a broadsheet like The Times and a populist paper like The Daily Mail that are prepared to cover these issues. The issue is further complicated by the fact during Covid the govt. began partially funding the media.

FrancescaContini · 04/03/2023 09:04

FannyCann · 04/03/2023 08:03

the options for the gender question are ‘male’, ‘ female’ and ‘another gender’

I thought there were 100 genders. Or more.
Why don't they want to know or are the other genders so meaningless they don't get to be counted?

I thought someone claimed there are 73 genders…Christ knows. But hopefully this now-pointless census will be peaking many more people in NZ.

Grammarnut · 04/03/2023 08:16

TomPinch · 04/03/2023 02:42

I'm not sure this is a problem.

The two separate questions implicitly recognise that sex is one thing and gender is another.

Asking for one's sex "at birth" implies recognition that one's sex can't be changed.

I expect the Dept of Statistics is well aware of the bloody nose that the UK census got in court a few years ago* as that judgement would be certainly be cited in any court proceedings here, and this is why they have two seperate questions.

*Lots of people here will know this, but the UK census, on the advice of Stonewall, said that whether one was male or female should be answered by reference to gender identity alone. This was held to be unlawful.

The words 'sex at birth' imply the opposite of your deduction: sex can be changed and may be different from 'sex at birth'. At least, that's how I read it. Sounds utterly ridiculous, too. What is the point of recording magical thinking? NZ must be really, really captured. Stuff I have seen online (UK here - there was a row about only recording gender on the census and the government lost) suggests this (and Australia, too).

FannyCann · 04/03/2023 08:03

the options for the gender question are ‘male’, ‘ female’ and ‘another gender’

I thought there were 100 genders. Or more.
Why don't they want to know or are the other genders so meaningless they don't get to be counted?

FrancescaContini · 04/03/2023 07:11

I thought part of the purpose of a census is to inform future planning for schools, hospitals, public facilities…for which information sex is wholly relevant: for example, governments would gain some idea of how many maternity wards may be needed in X years’ time.

If they are gathering information about unicorn or mermaid gender, how does this aid the process (apart from giving an idea of what percentage of the population lives in cuckoo land)?

FrancescaContini · 04/03/2023 07:04

“Your sex at birth” = “your sex”

The words “at birth” are redundant, and always will be.

HurricanesPoua · 04/03/2023 06:45

@LikeGolddust that's why we have each thought of a way to the 60 characters we have to describe our gender to express our disagreement with having to do it at all:)

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 06:44

Pushed post too soon.
So data on sex based violence, wages etc from now on will be sorted on gender identification not sex.

LikeGolddust · 04/03/2023 06:42

@TomPinch
No it is a problem. 'Gender identity' will now be how all subsequent data is sorted (not sex).

If you do not enter a Gender Identity the Dept of Stats will infer one for you using as yet unspecified sources. But possibly including the answer to your 'sex' question and previous census.

If you stick 'none' it will be coded as 'other'. So the possible results for the gender identity question are 'Male' 'Female' and 'Other' (which includes (I think) around 47 possible options).

There is NO option to opt out. You cannot select 'none' without them inferring a 'Gender Identity' and assigning it to you. There is no 'I have no gender identity' option.

HurricanesPoua · 04/03/2023 06:22

Oh and if they are going to impute gender using the "sex at birth" response, they are basically saying that if there is no gender information, they will assume sex=gender. Isn't that what "wrong" that they are trying to put right?

HurricanesPoua · 04/03/2023 06:19

I was the first person to use the dwelling code for my house. This meant I was asked to name and gender ALL the people who would be in the house on Census night. I think that contravenes Yogyakarta Principle 6. Not to mention that I might commit "literal violence" by misgendering someone who is not ready to reveal their gender.

The information collected is going to be inaccurate for a number of reasons. Everyone is supposed to specify their gender, even pre-verbal children. Parents will presumably complete the form with a gender that matches their sex characteristics. The data for young children will be very unreliable, but at what age does it become reliable? And what is the point of trying to measure something that is not clearly defined? What will the data tell us?

All the members of my household are gender critical- we've each chosen to address this in a different way with our census response - the equivalent of spoiling a ballot paper, I suppose. But we have certainly not just slid into the "my gender is the same as my sex" bollocks.