I don't agree with the ad-hominem comments on Sam Smith, India Willoughby et al.

If you don’t want people to take the piss out of you, maybe don’t dress up like a bouncy castle.

😂😂😂

Actually scratch what I said above.

@HorribleNecktie has added something very valuable to the discussion.

This has nothing to do with gender. SS is putting the B in LGBT. B for bouncy castle 🙌🏻

If there was a discussion elsewhere on MN about Sam's attire, or if we were discussing it before he decided he was non-binary would anyone be wringing their hands and worrying? I doubt it. We'd all be saying "look at the silly sod dressed up like an inflatable black pudding ffs"

Stick to arguing ideas

Arguably these brands are ideas.

Sam Smith the person is separate from his act. The dressing up in a rubber flatulence suit and stuff is his act. It’s not him as a person.

I hate the way Sam Smith dresses. Not because of their body or gender identity but because it's so utterly false. You look at people like Elton John and David Bowie and they absolutely rock the wacky clothes because it's a look that's true to their personalities. Sam Smith looks like they've fallen into someone else's dressing up box.

Similarly, IW is making a career out of this. How IW a looks and presents IW is all part of the product.

I don’t think IW would be anything other than a local news hack without the whole IW “first trans news presenter” schtick.

I think SS is actually brave being photographed wearing those unflattering, sex-appeal withering outfits. It’s a performance art thing and it does succeed in provoking a reaction in me - the widespread ridicule, the horror and the disapproval are an essential part of it - like he is working through ways to accept himself.

@TERFCat I agree 100%

It’s less like commenting on Brenda from HR’s unflattering haircut than it is criticising walkers for launching a new line of vomit crisps.

And here endeth the thread.

@hryllilegur has said all that needs to be said on the matter.

People can wear whatever they like but they don't have the right to control what others say about them regardless of whether it's positive or negative.

That's life. Dress like a twat and people will call you a twat.

I think there's a place for all that silly dress up, so I'm not fussed either way. That's celeb culture and high fashion- it's all ridiculous.

Saying people shouldn't have the right to comment on what he wears is ridiculous.

If you don’t want people to take the piss out of you, maybe don’t dress up like a bouncy castle.

Yeah generally I agree with you, OP. I try and avoid getting into any personal attacks on social media. It is the kinda thing that when amplified can be too much/ potentially harmful. I mean it can be quite funny too but I'd rather have those kinds of conversations/ share observations like that in person. It's a pub chat. I try and be mindful of using social media in this way.

Stick to arguing ideas

I laugh at SS the same way i laugh at any ridiculously pretentious idiot making a living out of being in the public eye.

The they stuff is just more silly on the top. Like a cherry 🍒

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Especially if you are a pop star.

They aren’t individuals in this context. They’re carefully designed products.

People can dress however they like within decency standards. But once you’ve decided to make your image and style and such like the product you’re selling… criticism of your brand - and any changes in it - comes with the territory.

No one forced IW to plaster IW all
over social media. IW chooses to do it for financial gain. Just as Sam Smith is promoting the Sam Smith brand with all this nonsense.

Just by the by, I saw a TikTok by a professional photographer who said that people get to the stage quite quickly where they believe that their be-filtered fizzog is actually what they look like.

If you read anything at all in lifestyle, fashion, royalties, celebrities etc. you will see that women's looks are criticised much, much more than the looks of men. Women are held to much higher standards. Quantitatively that is the more serious problem when it comes to lookism, and probably one reason for the reported high rates of feeling hopeless and sad among teen girls.

For Sam Smith the clothes, the image, the presentation is all part of the act. It’s all about getting people talking about Sam
Smith - and making lots of money.

Similarly, IW is making a career out of this. How IW a looks and presents IW is all part of the product.

It’s less like commenting on Brenda from HR’s unflattering haircut than it is criticising walkers for launching a new line of vomit crisps.

Does India get as many comments as say Khloe Kardashian who is a big fan of heavy image and video filters and has people worldwide pointing it out each time ?

Does anyone outside the UK know India ? I'm not so sure that she's particularly well known unless you're a Big Brother fan.

As for India the only comments that I've seen are about Indias photo shopping escapades which is fair enough as all women face the same criticism about their use of photo shop you'd think India would be happy being treated just like women are

i saw india on the telly the other day, i did not recognise them at all

i do wonder with these filters and photo shopping some people use whether they would ever be found if they went missing…or on the lam

( using ‘they’ to refer to multiple people…not india)

I agree @TERFCat

Individuals have the right to wear what they wish without judgment or personal comments being made that denigrate them. The only limit to this is if the outfit is designed to expose genitalia.

For me this is true whatever their sex, age or physical attributes.

I fear a society that seeks to dictate what individuals wear, using shaming or even modesty laws to achieve this.

Logically a singular “they” should be followed by “is”. It’s no more difficult to remember than it is to remember to use the wrong pronoun and it’s so jarring that it’s worth doing.

From now on I'm going to identify as Sam Smith and declare my fat rolls to actually be inflatable pants.

😂😂😂(gasps for breath) 😂😂😂

D) Shout “bundle” and spend the next few minutes bouncing across the pub floor (until the inevitable puncture).

<nods sagely>

This is the correct approach.

Sam can wear what Sam wants. I can think it's fucking bike. I do agree that comments about body shape are almost always unwarranted and cruel. However Sam is happy to erase women's achievements so... I'm less willing to go to the barricades.

D) stick a pin in it, tell them to stop being a twat and get the drinks in.

D) Shout “bundle” and spend the next few minutes bouncing across the pub floor (until the inevitable puncture).