I don't agree with the ad-hominem comments on Sam Smith, India Willoughby et al.

Yep. It’s here because of non-binary. Apparently that makes it ok to mock size, build and celebrity publicity projects. Hopefully we’ll see all the vitriol for the other weird fashion/style/bodies that don’t dare to believe something different. If we all believed everything we had been told there would still be a lot of people living in fear, hiding and denial. Can you hear yourselves?

Bah! Typo. Obvs that should’ve read:

’which isn’t exactly an unusual shape for a post-lockdown male from the British Isles’

Not that I ever comment on Smith, on social media or on here, as I also never comment on any other individual's appearance. Nonetheless, there's a line for me and certain people cross it and in my view, kink-related displays belong in the bedroom or very specialist magazines not in mainstream ones. I resent being made to take part in his fetish and I avoid anything to do with him now (used to be a fan a long time ago). I can't listen to his music anymore without remembering these displays and it puts me off his songs completely.

Also, I do not expect opponents of self-id policies and laws to behave any differently when it comes to proponents of self-id - if you're the type to enjoy ridiculing people's wardrobe choices, by all means enjoy ridiculing his. If you don't, then don't. I don't believe we have to be better than them, to go high when they go low etc. I just don't think that gets us anywhere.

And if a person is as desperate for attention as Smith is, then any comment is better than none. As far as such people are concerned, as long as there's a whole thread on his sartorial choices and people's reaction to them, it's mission accomplished.

Which is why I prefer to ignore Smith completely and as for Willoughby, I pay zero attention, none of the insults hurled or attacks register with me at all, because I think that's a very unwell individual who probably needs friends or family to step in to help. ASAP.

To be Gender Critical is to be critical of gender - gender being sex stereotypes such as ‘girls wear dresses’.

And TW aren’t women because they aren’t adult human females, not because of what they wear or how ‘feminine’ their faces are or are not.

Seems like either you or the comments you’ve read have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick?

Completely agree. It's just so forced and fake. Look at Sam's face in the black blow up outfit. Looks so uncomfortable. No joy, or any emotion in the eyes.
It's just another mask to hide behind.

Whist I think Harry Styles' dress sense is also part of his 'act' rather than his natural sense of style, he is clearly very comfortable in his own skin, and has always had a don't give a shit what people think attitude.

So have you said anything at all on your Twitter account? Or you just came to tell us people on Twitter are being mean?

I mean not sure we can do anything about the cesspit that is Twitter, I dont even have an account.

I can't think of many other celebs who get their appearance dissected on S&G so it's disingenuous to say it's all about the outfits.

There are now shit loads of trans celebs so if Sam Smith is the only one who gets they’s ‘appearance dissected’ surely it’s far more likely to be a response to Sam Smith’s idiosyncratic fashion sense than it is Sam Smith’s body (which isn’t exactly an usual shape for a post-lockdown male from the British Isles?)

The thing that FWR most often focus on re: Sam Smith is Sam Smith’s ongoing torture of the English language (‘Fisherthem’) and that Sam Smith’s pouting about the Brit Awards categories likely cost Florence and the Machine a Best Female trophy.

Sure. But if it's just the clothes, why primarily on the s&g board? Because of SS's gender identity, whatever you think of it.

It's not just SS though. I've seen loads of people say "i wear trousers and my clothes don't mean I'm a man" but also things like "how can this TW say they're a woman when they wear masculine clothes/ their face isn't very feminine".

If someone was trying to make half these arguments to me face to face, I'd have to have a photo of Sam Smith in that ridiculous inflatable suit and hold it up every time they tried to argue about me saying he's dressed like a twat. I'd just slowly bring it out of my pocket and hold it in front of their face every time they started talking about it being unkind to Sam.

There was something else recently, another awards ceremony, where some other tube was wearing an outfit covered in ridiculous spikes. He also looked like a total twat.

I rather like men with a little extra chub. I don't think he's objectively unattractive.

Sam Smith gets the piss taken about his clothing because of the way he goes on about his clothes making him a woman, and about his weight because of the way he talks about his fat making him a woman.

You might have to meet them outside the pub as they probably wouldn't fit through the door 😂

D) feel rather embarrassed for them that once again they have been sneaking a peak through my Windows and copied my outfit! Again!

@AmuseBish come on. The blow up gimp suit would have attracted comment no matter who was wearing it or how they identified.

Some of the other stuff I'll give you but that one was 100% justified. It wasn't really even clothes.

As for IW, I find their misogyny and racism far more worthy of comment than their appearance (although India does seem to talk about that A LOT)

Criticism of dress sense is more appropriate on the Style board. I hate the implication - which is often quite heavily made - that how fem/masc you dress, or your face appears etc, has any relevance to your sex, or gender really.

And ridicule of SS's clothes is often on here purely because SS calls SSself non-binary.
I can't think of many other celebs who get their appearance dissected on S&G so it's disingenuous to say it's all about the outfits.

I hate dishonesty from TRAs and I hate it here.

What @GromblesofGrimbledon said.

I agree.

I don't like Sam Smith, but I don't like the way he is spoken about by a lot of people either. The identity stuff is one thing, but who cares if a pop star wears stupid clothes and looks daft? Knock yourself out, lad. Enjoy.

Willoughby is consistently nasty to women and so that is a bit different, but still no need for the vitriol. It doesn't do us any favours, and a lot of it is genuine transphobia rather than a critique of gender identity politics.

Yes. I've said that about women I've seen dressed horrendously before. There are limits within social norms about what is an acceptable way to dress.

I haven't ever approached anyone and said "you look like a whore" to their face. But I'm free to think that and comment that to other people, whether or not you find it distasteful. I've also uttered the phrase, "he looks like a pure jakey" and "gie that lassie a bowl of soup she's staunin there like an x-ray". I say all sorts of things me.

I'd say it's factually accurate to look at the photos a PP has posted on this thread and say that Sam Smith looks like a BDSM whore. He is quite literally naked, arse in the air and bound with ropes. What do you want me to say? "Lovely knots, he must be a rare Boy Scout"?

What am I allowed to say? "They is stunning", "they is beautiful", "they is widening the bandwidth of beauty"?

They is widening the bandwidth of sheer tubery as far as I can see. But they is not the only celeb cutting about looking like a dafty by any means.

Can you provide a list of approved negative things I can say about Sam Smith?

But they are literally inviting comment?

Their image is their business, it's how they get interviews and make money.

I don't feel sorry for them. They are provocative deliberately.

I read that in Gollum's voice

Yoda also works.

Missed this thread but I have been saying for so long that picking on appearances is not on, that I'm actually sick of saying it. It's actually made me step back from this board a bit.
I know most don't but it's shit when people do.
Rainbow-bum penisy outfits are a separate matter...

Commenting on dress sense is fair game. What I personally hate is GC accounts picking apart peoples appearance. Like saying 'definitely a man look at the height/shoulders/body hair/jawline/no curves' as if women are all dainty flowers with perfectly feminine features.

It's not only used at TRAs but also trans people who are GC/have reasonable opinions. And indirectly it's very offensive to women with those features to be told they look like a man.

I read that in Gollum's voice

The first part of your comment had me bursting 😂

@GromblesofGrimbledon

Your comment: "Dress like a twat and people will call you a twat."

suggests that if you dress in a certain way, it allows people to insult you personally.

If you substitute other words within that sentence e.g slut/whore are you still happy with it?